Practice notes Dec 13

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

So they should be held to roughly the same standard, age-wise. If Mangiapane is still a young player with potential to improve, then so is Bennett.

But that is seldom how it works.

A more consistently accurate gauge of player development and potential is in games played factory with age. While Mangiapane and Bennett are the same age, Bennett's extensive NHL experience is likely a clear indicator of who he is and what to expect. This is less so for Mangiapane. Both players could still continue to develop, but I think the chances of that happening for Mangiapane are considerably higher than for Bennett.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You would think after seeing how Backlund developed people would have a bit more patience with Bennett. At worst he is a hard checking player that can chip in some points while bringing it in big games. At best he still had a lot of potential to be a top 6 mainstay.

First 4 full seasons


Bennett 311 games, 54 goals, 60 ast, 115 pts, 264 pim

Backlund 291 games, 71 goals, 85 ast, 156 pts, 130 pim

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You would think after seeing how Backlund developed people would have a bit more patience with Bennett. At worst he is a hard checking player that can chip in some points while bringing it in big games. At best he still had a lot of potential to be a top 6 mainstay.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'll give him this, Bennett has been vastly more productive from a pure points perspective up to this point of his career as opposed to Backlund. Prior to this season, Bennett never put up fewer than 26 points (4 straight 26+ point seasons) - Backlund had 25 pts at age 21 and wouldn't break 30 until he was 24.

Backlund's developmental setbacks were all injury related. He was on a 0.5 pts/GP pace in his 23-year-old season, which he then continued to replicate and surpass as he got older. We have yet to see that from Bennett, who is now in his 23-year-old season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

First 4 full seasons


Bennett 311 games, 54 goals, 60 ast, 115 pts, 264 pim

Backlund 291 games, 71 goals, 85 ast, 156 pts, 130 pim

You mean his 23, 24, 25 and 26 year old seasons?

Yes, he had better numbers then than Bennett has up to his current 22 year old season

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You mean his 23, 24, 25 and 26 year old seasons?

Yes, he had better numbers then than Bennett has up to his current 22 year old season

Backlund played a total of only 73 games in his 22- and 23-year-old seasons because of injuries. It's a completely diffierent situation for Bennett, who has been consistently in the lineup since he was 18.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You mean his 23, 24, 25 and 26 year old seasons?

Yes, he had better numbers then than Bennett has up to his current 22 year old season

OK, so now we are comparing ages strictly and experience has no part of it?


And how is this Bennetts 22 year old season?

He has been 23 since June....and is still prorating at his career averages.

[Enoch Root]

Yes, sorry, 23 year old season - it was a typo

The point is you tried to compare Backlund's 23-26 year old seasons to Bennett's seasons that all came before the age of 23. Injuries or not, those are not comparable things.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But that is seldom how it works.

A more consistently accurate gauge of player development and potential is in games played factory with age. While Mangiapane and Bennett are the same age, Bennett's extensive NHL experience is likely a clear indicator of who he is and what to expect. This is less so for Mangiapane. Both players could still continue to develop, but I think the chances of that happening for Mangiapane are considerably higher than for Bennett.

I'd argue most of development is correlated with age rather than games played, things like physical maturation and skill development for example. The main development that comes with experience would be the mental part of the game. And if anything I'd argue Mangiapane is already ahead of Bennett in that aspect.

But fair point, I'll concede that they shouldn't be treated identically. And circle back to the rest of my point, which is that Bennett is the better player today pretty much across the board. But we happily talk about how Mangiapane's breaking out offensively, to the tune of a 25 point pace playing in the top 6, meanwhile Bennett's a complete disappointment for producing 26-27 points on the third line.

[Azure]

I think Backlund is actually still developing, and playing with actually top-line players such as Johnny and Monahan you see he has more to his game.

Bennett is only 22. We would be stupid to think he can't develop into a better player.

[TheScorpion]

Anthony Duclair is 24. After a great rookie season where he scored 44 points, he'd often been criticized for his defense in the years since and didn't even hit 25 points in a season again before being dealt to Ottawa.

Now he's on pace for a 42-goal, 60-point season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Anthony Duclair is 24. After a great rookie season where he scored 44 points, he'd often been criticized for his defense in the years since and didn't even hit 25 points in a season again before being dealt to Ottawa.

Now he's on pace for a 42-goal, 60-point season.

Nope. Unpossible.

Everyone knows that you can't develop any more, after you've played 250 games.

[TheScorpion]

And it's funny -- Duclair isn't even on a PDO bender or shooting a crazy percentage. His offensive zone starts % this season is among the lowest of his career -- heck, he's being used to kill penalties!

What's changed? Well, he's being used in a consistent, top-six role, with powerplay time. He's playing 16:34 per night, the most since his 20-goal rookie season where he played 14:22 a night.

Meanwhile, Sam Bennett's ATOI has consistently decreased every season of his career:

2014-15 (one game): 16:00
2015-16: 15:09
2016-17: 14:59
2017-18: 14:24
2018-19: 13:17
2019-20: 13:12

With the top lines under constant flux, Bennett should be next in line for one of those RW spots if Mangiapane or Dube falter.

[crapshoot]

This ongoing discussion about the wheter or not there is any value of comparing Backlund and Bennett is one of the more confusing arguments I've read here in a long time.

[bigrangy]

every single forward on the team looked like garbage until the winning streak, since then, every forward has looked incredible, even Rinaldo.

When Bennett is on he absolutely can be an impact guy, and pretty much everyone is on right now, so I’d have faith in him delivering some good performances once he gets healthy

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Anthony Duclair is 24. After a great rookie season where he scored 44 points, he'd often been criticized for his defense in the years since and didn't even hit 25 points in a season again before being dealt to Ottawa.

Now he's on pace for a 42-goal, 60-point season.

Yes, that is totally the norm for most players in that boat and not an anomaly at all.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Look, I get he has played better as of late but he has one damn assist on the year. You don't keep Sam Bennett out of the lineup for that. He kills penalties? Whoop, so does half of the rest of the roster. I was as big a supporter as anyone for Janko but he is a bust. He certainly should not be in the lineup ahead of Bennett once he is good to go.

Who cares how he’s playing right?

Instead I’m just going to ignore the most important thing (how he’s playing) to focus on scoring stats.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Why Rieder? He has as many points as Bennett does and has been noticeably good.

Jankowski is the first guy out, IMO.

Jankowski has been noticeably good as well

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Rinaldo has already supplanted Bennett's usefulness at a fraction of his price.

Dump the bust and use the cap space to get someone at the deadline.

Your post is the true bust

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

I'd be putting Mangiapane near the top of that list - 1 point (-2) in his last 8 games playing on the top line is not very good

I wonder if it's no coincidence that the new top line has pretty much catered points-wise since the winning streak started.

Monahan has surpassed Tkachuk for the team's points leader, and our previously hardest working forwards (Tkachuk and Lindholm) have either only chipped in a few goals 5v5 or collected their points on the PP.

Mangiapane looks dangerous on the ice, but that line has gone cold, and we know Tkachuk and Lindholm are capable of producing. Time to try someone else with the pair, be it Dube, Bennett, Czarnik or Frolik.

[transplant99]

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