Women's professional hockey - will it ever work? - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Itse · 12-12-2019, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Is a market where there are still stadiums that won't sell out so saturated that there is excess demand being unmet? Doesn't seem likely.

Could another men's league start up with fresh teams and have a go at competing against the NHL in the same markets? Seems like a stupidly tough proposition.

Is women playing instead of men playing a big enough difference to bring out a whole new group of customers with needs not being met by the current league? I really doubt it.

It's not even a men vs women issue.

This is the main reason why I think the only way it might work is if they set up the womens teams as extensions of existing NHL brands.

I won't pay for generic extra hockey, but I might pay something for extra Flames hockey. Put any two teams in Flames and Oilers jerseys, and I will care how that game ends.

Yes it's irrational, but it makes all the difference whether those jerseys say "Inferno" or "Flames".

VladtheImpaler · 12-13-2019, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itse

This is the main reason why I think the only way it might work is if they set up the womens teams as extensions of existing NHL brands.

I won't pay for generic extra hockey, but I might pay something for extra Flames hockey. Put any two teams in Flames and Oilers jerseys, and I will care how that game ends.

Yes it's irrational, but it makes all the difference whether those jerseys say "Inferno" or "Flames".

I think the only way you can do something is if before the NHL game between the Flames and the Oilers there is a games between the Flames and Oilers WNHL teams (it better fit into a max 90 minutes) that is either free for season ticket holders or is a few dollars extra. You also give away a bunch of tickets to schools. You are basically hoping people with kids take in both games and it catches on and organically builds some interest. Like, we are going with the kids to the Flames games - might as well go early, have some dinner and watch the women. Maybe can generate enough concessions to offset some of the sunk costs. There is no way anybody is paying money to watch it otherwise, so you have to ride the coat-tails, and hope the product can improve enough over time to generate interest.

CMPunk · 12-13-2019, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I think the only way you can do something is if before the NHL game between the Flames and the Oilers there is a games between the Flames and Oilers WNHL teams (it better fit into a max 90 minutes) that is either free for season ticket holders or is a few dollars extra. You also give away a bunch of tickets to schools. You are basically hoping people with kids take in both games and it catches on and organically builds some interest. Like, we are going with the kids to the Flames games - might as well go early, have some dinner and watch the women. Maybe can generate enough concessions to offset some of the sunk costs. There is no way anybody is paying money to watch it otherwise, so you have to ride the coat-tails, and hope the product can improve enough over time to generate interest.

For something like that, you'd probably be starting that game before 5 pm. You'd need time for two floods and for the Flames warm up as well. Not to mention time to get people without NHL tickets to get out of the building. I don't think people would be showing up at 430 pm and stay until the end of the Flames game, especially with kids.

VladtheImpaler · 12-13-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMPunk

For something like that, you'd probably be starting that game before 5 pm. You'd need time for two floods and for the Flames warm up as well. Not to mention time to get people without NHL tickets to get out of the building. I don't think people would be showing up at 430 pm and stay until the end of the Flames game, especially with kids.

I am not saying it's a great idea

, but just trying to figure out a way to market/sell a crappy product.

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 09:39 AM

In a market like Calgary, where the Hitmen don't even get a decent draw consistently, there is no hope for Women's hockey.

I believe Women's hockey also has to be marketed as a different game. It is an exciting game to watch, but very different from Men's hockey.

transplant99 · 12-13-2019, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

In a market like Calgary, where the Hitmen don't even get a decent draw consistently, there is no hope for Women's hockey.

I believe Women's hockey also has to be marketed as a different game. It is an exciting game to watch, but very different from Men's hockey.

??

They are one of the best attended teams in junior hockey in the entire country.

CroFlames · 12-13-2019, 10:39 AM

The only way this might have a chance is to cancel all competitive hockey (besides the Flames) from midget, junior & CIS levels in and around Calgary. Probably men's lacrosse too. Stamps and Cavalry could still work because they are summer leagues.

Then all you have in southern Alberta is a men's pro team and a women's pro team and a WHL team in Med Hat and Lethbridge. People who are hockey starved and unwilling to pay to watch NHL would maybe attend women's games. Of course, you would need to apply this structure to any other city a women's team would go.

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

??

They are one of the best attended teams in junior hockey in the entire country.

That might be, but the 'Dome is woefully empty most games. This season, they have started pushing people down to make the building look more full. Some of the STH friends we've developed over the years have been forced to move from row 6&7 of the 2nd bowl to rows 1-3.

The Roughnecks have much better attendance than the Hitmen. In this city, if it's Hockey and not the Flames, it's under supported.

GioforPM · 12-13-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

That might be, but the 'Dome is woefully empty most games. This season, they have started pushing people down to make the building look more full. Some of the STH friends we've developed over the years have been forced to move from row 6&7 of the 2nd bowl to rows 1-3.

The Roughnecks have much better attendance than the Hitmen. In this city, if it's Hockey and not the Flames, it's under supported.

The Dome holds over 19K. It’s gonna look empty even though the Hitmen were 2nd in attendance in the WHL last year (avg 7363).

The Roughnecks have better attendance, but that’s kind of irrelevant for me.

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Dome holds over 19K. It’s gonna look empty even though the Hitmen were 2nd in attendance in the WHL last year (avg 7363).

The Roughnecks have better attendance, but that’s kind of irrelevant for me.

Go to a game some time and see how many empty seats there are in the lower bowl alone.

Scroopy Noopers · 12-13-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

Go to a game some time and see how many empty seats there are in the lower bowl alone.

Because there are more affordable options higher up...

GioforPM · 12-13-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

Go to a game some time and see how many empty seats there are in the lower bowl alone.

The Hitmen draw over 7K per game. The Oil Kings have a few more. The next team in the league is 2K less. Your complaint isn’t really that they don’t draw well. It’s that the arena is too large. Or maybe that the lower bowl should be used only, and the tickets should be repriced.

transplant99 · 12-13-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

Go to a game some time and see how many empty seats there are in the lower bowl alone.

Unless its a deep playoff run or teddy bear toss, of course there will be empty seats in a 19,000 seat arena for junior hockey.

That does not mean they are not supported well, because they have more support than literally 95% of junior teams in the country.

Hitmen are a flagship franchise for junior hockey any where on the planet, never mind in Canada. Flames ownership has really done it right with this entity..

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Hitmen draw over 7K per game. The Oil Kings have a few more. The next team in the league is 2K less. Your complaint isn’t really that they don’t draw well. It’s that the arena is too large. Or maybe that the lower bowl should be used only, and the tickets should be repriced.

That is not my point. My point is that in this city unless the hockey is Flames hockey it is not well supported. So the Hitmen draw 7k a game, in a hockey mad city of Calgary's size, it could be better.

IMO It's really not a good marker to say well, the Hitmen draw the most in the league your complaint isn't valid, when many of the teams we play against have a population 10% or less than Calgary.

Resolute 14 · 12-13-2019, 11:15 AM

lol, Frankster, just take the L on this one. In the last 20 seasons (including this year), the Hitmen were first in the WHL in attendance for 15 years, second for 4 and third for 1 - that being 2000-01.

Across the country, the only two markets I can think of that consistently do better are London and Quebec City. Calgary is one of the very top junior hockey supporting cities in the world.

The Roughnecks do average more per game, but that is also only a nine-game season, not 36 like in the WHL.

The Cobra · 12-13-2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

In a market like Calgary, where the Hitmen don't even get a decent draw consistently, there is no hope for Women's hockey.

Hitmen draw 2nd in the WHL, just behind Edmonton.

So, in context, they are drawing exceptionally well.

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 11:19 AM

None of what you've said changes this for me. "Unless the hockey is Flames hockey it is not well supported"

Scroopy Noopers · 12-13-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

That is not my point. My point is that in this city unless the hockey is Flames hockey it is not well supported. So the Hitmen draw 7k a game, in a hockey mad city of Calgary's size, it could be better.

IMO It's really not a good marker to say well, the Hitmen draw the most in the league your complaint isn't valid, when many of the teams we play against have a population 10% or less than Calgary.

That’s the exact point I’m arguing. They are well supported, I don’t know why anyone would expect more people to attend the Jr. version of the sport in a city that also has a pro team. As well as university teams...

Most of the city’s we are playing have exactly 1 option for live high level hockey.

GrrlGoalie33 · 12-13-2019, 11:23 AM

Agree to disagree at this point.

lazypucker · 12-13-2019, 11:32 AM

Pro women hockey MAY work if they do it in a tour / tournament style where the league has say 6 or 8 teams, they all go to a host city for weekend games, and every week they rotate the host city.

So let's say all Canadian NHL cities have a women's team, we can have a tour schedule of like Vancouver on Week 1, Calgary on Week 2, Toronto on Week 3, and so on.

That could keep the interest (and attention span, and spending) of fans of the cities, for example each year there will only be 1 or 2 weekends of women's hockey in your city. People may treat this as a one-time annual event, rather than follow a team for 20/30 home games a year.