Aliu blackface incident with the Colorado Eagles

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

On the actual topic, one thing that’s made me scratch my head a little bit is the POV that this was some “evil” act, or that it was aggressively malicious, or that (because it was those things) it wasn’t a “hockey culture issue.”

I can’t quite see this being true, and I think this might be a case of people categorising it as evil or isolated because it’s easier to understand and accept. “There are evil people in the world that do evil things and that fits nicely into how I view the world.”

I think what’s more concerning in my mind is that this likely wasn’t malicious or evil. It was probably just profoundly ignorant....

This is a good post to get things back on topic and I'll try to add to this discussion. I've questioned some peoples certainty whether the trainer was trying to be malicious or whether this was a stupid act meant to be a joke but clearly did dehumanize Aliu (so basically the definition of ignorance to the max).

I may be naive but most of the situations I've encountered with racism is that its not motivated by hate but rather based on ignorance. Racism should never be tolerated no matter what the factor. Ignorance, fear, stereotypes, prejudice or hate/power all can play into that and always should be called out and reprimanded.

So this is where I guess my post gets interesting as far as discussion goes. I don't think assuming whether the owner knew of the incident or if any of the current players condoned what I hope was an ignorant joke should be relevant at this point. I'll admit that 10 years ago I argued that dressing up as Mr T and painting skin as a costume was no different vs dressing up as Barney and painting skin purple as long as you were celebrating the icon. This in introspect is pretty ignorant.

I think what is important is that we give ignorant people the chance to learn.

[Boreal]

Salient points.

Additionally, in order to learn from ignorance it needs to first be acknowledged.

This is where hockey culture is a step behind.

There are several tentacles on the hydra that need to be severed, but unless you get to the heart of the matter, they re-emerge. This is what happened after Graham James. It was treated like an isolated problem. Hockey culture enabled a power dynamic to have that much unquestioned control because he got results. He is a Memorial Cup Champion.

Hockey Canada initiated their Speakout program. But was there even a preliminary assessment of the competency of volunteer coaches in childhood psychology, or even human psychology, to determine if they have the required comprehension of basic human psychology to interact with children?

Is there even now 23 years later?

This is why what is happening is a good thing. Whether it’s misogynistic acceptance of terms like puck bunnies, homophobic slurs, racial slurs, or the weak minded, brainless, simplistic, lazy, & belittling tactics of coaches to motivate players, you can’t diagnose a problem until you acknowledge it.

And you can’t minimize a problem until you diagnosis it.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by CASe333

I think what is important is that we give ignorant people the chance to learn.

For sure, if you're going to educate, people need to be given a second chance.

Look at the Peters firing though. 10 years ago and he probably did learn. Still cost him his job and likely his career.

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

For sure, if you're going to educate, people need to be given a second chance.

Look at the Peters firing though. 10 years ago and he probably did learn. Still cost him his job and likely his career.

There's no evidence Peters learned though, in fact his "appology" leads me to think otherwise. There were also non-racial but still awful things he did quite recently.

Do you see an alternative to firing Peters? I'm curious.

[GreenLantern2814]

I think the most important thing to remember is that Akim Aliu is not an isolated incident. What happened to Akim has happened to other people and continues to happen.

That's what there should be zero tolerance for. Singling people out to do them physical and/or emotional harm in professional environments.

You can't do that.

[sempuki]

I don't think anyone rational thinks this equipment manager was "evil" -- good people can do bad things. I'm sure in his head it was just a bit of light hazing of the new guy -- make sure he knows his place. But context exists. Akim has been hazed and bullied so much of his career. And racial hazing? OMG -- like you'd think people would know better by now...

And as for bringing up the feelings of poor white people when they're doing racist things -- Peters had a chance to make clear it was an isolated incident 10 years ago and doesn't reflect who he is today. He didn't take that opportunity. I lost all respect for the guy after his "apology".

Can we stay talking about Aliu, racist hazing, or the experiences of colored people in hockey??

[Hemi-Cuda]

As someone who was already disillusioned with the NHL for a multitude of reasons (high cost of tickets, owners strong-arming cities for new arenas, wildly inconsistent rulebook, etc), learning just how terrible the culture around hockey can be in recent weeks has just further eroded what little amount of interest I still had in the sport

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by sempuki

I'm sure in his head it was just a bit of light hazing of the new guy -- make sure he knows his place.

And what exactly is "his place"? Is that supposed to make it acceptable?

I think your post is probably as offensive as the act itself.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

As someone who was already disillusioned with the NHL for a multitude of reasons (high cost of tickets, owners strong-arming cities for new arenas, wildly inconsistent rulebook, etc), learning just how terrible the culture around hockey can be in recent weeks has just further eroded what little amount of interest I still had in the sport

I refute this “hockey culture” notion that keeps popping up as it detracts from the fact that this is EVERYWHERE (which is the main issue).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CASe333

...I don't think assuming whether the owner knew of the incident or if any of the current players condoned what I hope was an ignorant joke should be relevant at this point. I'll admit that 10 years ago I argued that dressing up as Mr T and painting skin as a costume was no different vs dressing up as Barney and painting skin purple as long as you were celebrating the icon. This in introspect is pretty ignorant.

I think what is important is that we give ignorant people the chance to learn.

In principle I agree, but this incident is really difficult for me to stomach. Yes, people should be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and to grow, but I have to tell you: when I saw the picture posted on twitter, I was revolted. And this is where I feel context is especially important, and why we should take care to gauge the severity of such incidents on a case-by-case basis. Yes, while "blackface is blackface," there are certainly occasions in which it is exponentially worse, more insulting, more hurtful. This is one of those cases.

Take a look again at the picture from the party, and read Aliu's account of it: He was the only black guy in attendance, he was told to arrive late, he says the event felt calculated, and he felt trapped. The costume itself appears to me to be obviously over the top—as if to drill home antiquated black stereotypes in exchange for laughs at Aliu's expense.

This is a case of shocking ignorance on Deynzer's part. He is not celebrating an icon. He is not appropriating a party theme. He is mocking and denigrating a guy he barely knows (Aliu only played ten games in Colorado), and he is doing so by exaggerating patently obvious and dehumanising racial stereotypes. It's pretty difficult to see this as misguided ignorant fun—it strikes me as cruel and hateful. On it's own, the picture is bad. In the context of what Aliu experienced and the story he tells about it, it is horrific.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

And what exactly is "his place"? Is that supposed to make it acceptable?

I think your post is probably as offensive as the act itself.

I think you don't understand my post.


Your issue is with a culture of "teaching" people "their place", not the fact someone called them out on it.

Don't let that stop you from lashing at allies because quotation marks aren't in the right place.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I think the most important thing to remember is that Akim Aliu is not an isolated incident. What happened to Akim has happened to other people and continues to happen.

That's what there should be zero tolerance for. Singling people out to do them physical and/or emotional harm in professional environments.

You can't do that.

Definitely not an isolated incident. However, I do think things are slowly changing for the better. I remember reading an article in SI around 20 years ago about Anson Carter. Growing up playing in Quebec there was a game when he was a kid where every time he touched the puck someone would well the N-word at the top of their lungs.

I even remember the Flames playing in San Jose I believe, memory is kind of hazy, and there was a racist sign taped to the glass that compared Iginla to a primate or something to that affect. That really surprised me, because I always thought of California as being very progressive.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Definitely not an isolated incident. However, I do think things are slowly changing for the better. I remember reading an article in SI around 20 years ago about Anson Carter. Growing up playing in Quebec there was a game when he was a kid where every time he touched the puck someone would well the N-word at the top of their lungs.

I even remember the Flames playing in San Jose I believe, memory is kind of hazy, and there was a racist sign taped to the glass that compared Iginla to a primate or something to that affect. That really surprised me, because I always thought of California as being very progressive.

These generalizations always make me wince a little. There are ignorant people in California. There are progressive thinkers in the Deep South. It only takes one unfortunately. Just using the labels I did is kind of wrong in and of itself.

[EldrickOnIce]

Janoris Jenkins (pro bowl CB) was cut by the Giants today for not (in their opinion) adequately apologizing for using the R word on Twitter.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Janoris Jenkins (pro bowl CB) was cut by the Giants today for not (in their opinion) adequately apologizing for using the R word on Twitter.

This one surprises me but I think it's good step in the direction to eliminate this derogatory term. I honestly think this is the first time I've seen such strong punishment for use of that word.

IMO it might be a little harsh, since sadly for the most part it's still used broadly in society, but maybe it helps drive more awareness for this cause.

It's a word that I still don't think a lot of society realizes just how hurtful it is.

I know even myself have to catch myself sometimes, because it's something that our generation grew up using, but there is no excuse now.

Special Olympics groups have done a lot to spread knowledge about the word and about inclusion now.

https://www.spreadtheword.global/archive

[EldrickOnIce]

I know it's only loosely related, but I think it speaks to consideration given to the sincerity of an apology.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In principle I agree, but this incident is really difficult for me to stomach. Yes, people should be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and to grow, but I have to tell you: when I saw the picture posted on twitter, I was revolted. And this is where I feel context is especially important, and why we should take care to gauge the severity of such incidents on a case-by-case basis. Yes, while "blackface is blackface," there are certainly occasions in which it is exponentially worse, more insulting, more hurtful. This is one of those cases.

Take a look again at the picture from the party, and read Aliu's account of it: He was the only black guy in attendance, he was told to arrive late, he says the event felt calculated, and he felt trapped. The costume itself appears to me to be obviously over the top—as if to drill home antiquated black stereotypes in exchange for laughs at Aliu's expense.

This is a case of shocking ignorance on Deynzer's part. He is not celebrating an icon. He is not appropriating a party theme. He is mocking and denigrating a guy he barely knows (Aliu only played ten games in Colorado), and he is doing so by exaggerating patently obvious and dehumanising racial stereotypes. It's pretty difficult to see this as misguided ignorant fun—it strikes me as cruel and hateful. On it's own, the picture is bad. In the context of what Aliu experienced and the story he tells about it, it is horrific.

Yes, when Denzel dresses as Aliu and wears blackface he’s saying “this is what I think is important about you”.

Aliu has a history of being a difficult guy on a team. No doubt a lot is pushback against ill-treatment (real or even just perceived after all the other times). So part of me thinks these are efforts to show him up because of that. I’ve heard a rumour that he did something that made Peters mad right before the locker room incident. So Peters picks on him using the word that hurts the most.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by CASe333

This is a good post to get things back on topic and I'll try to add to this discussion. I've questioned some peoples certainty whether the trainer was trying to be malicious or whether this was a stupid act meant to be a joke but clearly did dehumanize Aliu (so basically the definition of ignorance to the max).

Insert Hanlon's razor here.
Followed by "you don't know what that means".
Followed by "what's all this then?
Followed by "that doesn't apply here because I said so.""
Followed by hard eye rolling.

There. Just saved a page worth of posts.

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...This is a case of shocking ignorance on Deynzer's part. He is not celebrating an icon. He is not appropriating a party theme. He is mocking and denigrating a guy he barely knows (Aliu only played ten games in Colorado), and he is doing so by exaggerating patently obvious and dehumanising racial stereotypes. It's pretty difficult to see this as misguided ignorant fun—it strikes me as cruel and hateful. On it's own, the picture is bad. In the context of what Aliu experienced and the story he tells about it, it is horrific.

I agree with everything you are saying about Deynzer. He definitely should have known better in 2011 and should have lost his job then too. I should have articulated better that in both cases Peters and Deynzer did cross a line in my opinion that needed to be held accountable.

My point was that without this dialogue I don't know if I would have had the courage to stand up to either incidents at the time as a twenty year old. Reading about Aliu's experiences is important because it shows how crappy these types of incidents are and that they aren't just a joke. People that stand up for others or themselves are true heroes as it helps the cycle of ignorance to stop.

What is cannon blathering on about?

[Passe La Puck]

Hanlon’s razor? The trainer was maliciously stupid. No one is just plainly this stupid.