The forward depth: what gives?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Sorry but the Flames won’t be waiving and sending down Jankowski, that’s completely unrealistic.

As much as fans are down on him you don’t give away 6’4 centres who have skill and skating. If his value isn’t higher than his upside then it makes the most sense to keep him and see if he can realize his upside.

I could certainly see BT cashing in and trading him at some point but those suggesting sending him down are being silly. You don’t give away assets for nothing.

How much more room does Jankowski have to grow at 25? I think what you see is what you get. A 4th line C who is completely replaceable. It doesn't matter that he's 6'4, he plays like he's 5'8. I doubt you could even get a 4th for him honestly.

[FlamesAddiction]

I’d keep Rinaldo up if possible. Czarnik was really coming around prior to his injury.

Reider is really hit and miss. Mostly invisible, but occasionally makes a big play.

I think Dube will eventually cool off and gets sent back down.

At this point, I would try to move Jankowski for anything.

[David Struch]

Matthew Tkachuk - Elias Lindholm - Andrew Mangiapane
Dillon Dubé - Sean Monahan - Mikael Backlund
Milan Lucic - Derek Ryan - Johnny Gaudreau
Sam Bennett - Matthew Phillips - Austin Czarnik

Jankowski & Frolík get dealt.

Reward Justin Kirkland, Luke Philp or Glenn Gawdin with a call-up when someone needs to sit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

...I think Dube will eventually cool off and gets sent back down...

Maybe it happens, but there is nothing in Dube's game that suggests he might tail off. On the contrary, what I see is a kid finally getting rewarded on the scoresheet for numerous chances that in previous games were thwarted. When Dube made the team out of camp last year, it looked like he was affected by the hit from Gudbranson in Game #1, but nevertheless continued to generate numerous chances and made good plays for which he was not collecting goals or points. THAT is the big change I see now: Dube has always looked like a top-six forward, but now the numbers are starting to matchup.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

How much more room does Jankowski have to grow at 25? I think what you see is what you get. A 4th line C who is completely replaceable. It doesn't matter that he's 6'4, he plays like he's 5'8. I doubt you could even get a 4th for him honestly.

He’s a 4th line centre here. With more opportunity and ice time wouldn’t surprise me if he could be a #2 or #3 centre on a bad team. Confidence and opportunity can make players look 5 times better. Chris Clark was a 4th liner here and then a 1st liner and a 20-30 goal guy in WSH. And he looked like he had stone hands here. Jankowski has far more skill than Chris Clark. Chris Clark never scored 17 for us.

I’d say the minimum you trade him for is a 2nd. If teams aren’t offering more than that you hang up and hope he breaks out a bit offensively.

Giving away assets for less than their upside is a bad way to do business. Giving him up for a 4th has a huge chance of being a big mistake down the line. The same people who wanna give him away for nothing or a 4th are some of the same people who would whine for years if we did and he became a solid 2nd-3rd line centre elsewhere.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Calgarypuck.com 3 weeks ago: Blow it up and start the rebuild this roster sucks

Calgarypuck.com today: Look at this embarrassment of riches on our roster!

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I’d say the minimum you trade him for is a 2nd.

Lol.

This post has the potential to age very well indeed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

How much more room does Jankowski have to grow at 25? I think what you see is what you get. A 4th line C who is completely replaceable. It doesn't matter that he's 6'4, he plays like he's 5'8. I doubt you could even get a 4th for him honestly.

I've never liked the argument that a player isn't going to get better, based on their age.

IMO, if a player has some good tools, but just hasn't put it all together yet, there is always a chance that they can put it all together at some point.

Does the likelihood of that happening diminish with age? Sure. But there's still a chance. And for Jankowkski, there is still lots of room to grow.

[redforever]

I want to see how Bennett plays once he comes back before I say Dube is expendable over Bennett.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Lol.

This post has the potential to age very well indeed.

Agreed. Not sure what the lol is for though.

Treliving sets the price for any player he deals. Do you think Jankowski is worth less than Reto Berra or Sven Baertschi? I don’t. He plays the most important forward position, has size, skill and skating. He has an upside that could bite us in the ass if we move him for too little.

Treliving isn’t looking to move Janko for nothing like some foolish posters want

[TheScorpion]

Sean Tierney has an article out at The Athletic today examining the best possible line combinations for the Flames, from an analytical perspective.

Let's just say it's a hot take.

https://theathletic.com/1452120/2019...shared-article

His proposal:

Gaudreau - Ryan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Rieder - Lindholm - Frolik
Lucic - Monahan - Quine

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sean Tierney has an article out at The Athletic today examining the best possible line combinations for the Flames, from an analytical perspective.

Let's just say it's a hot take.

https://theathletic.com/1452120/2019...shared-article

His proposal:

Gaudreau - Ryan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Rieder - Lindholm - Frolik
Lucic - Monahan - Quine

Weird. Can you give the executive summary? My immediate thought is that guys with good analytics often do so because of the way they are currently deployed. Changing it up too much can be detrimental to everyone.

You could probably do the same exercise without minutes limitations and just put Ryan on for 60 minutes on lines with all the other forwards and have great combinations.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Agreed. Not sure what the lol is for though.

Treliving sets the price for any player he deals. Do you think Jankowski is worth less than Reto Berra or Sven Baertschi? I don’t. He plays the most important forward position, has size, skill and skating. He has an upside that could bite us in the ass if we move him for too little.

Treliving isn’t looking to move Janko for nothing like some foolish posters want

Berra was a Burke trade and the return was way, way higher than CP expected.
Baertschi got a 2nd, but that was a gift from Dim Jim + Wiesbrod... and IIRC according to the media that was by far the best offer for Sven out of the handful there were. So I wouldn't be using those two as comparables.

I'd be comparing him to Joe Colborne, meme-y as it sounds. Both of them have good hands and size, but very rarely bothered to use their size, both left shot centers, similar seasons. And speaking personally nothing annoys me more than a big player who plays small.

Sure, Janko can break out late. But the odds are against him.

Colborne (acquired for a 4th):
Age 23 - 28pts in 80GP
Age 24 - 28pts in 64GP
Age 25 - 44pts in 73GP
Left for the Avalanche
Age 26 - 8pts in 62 GP

Janko:
Age 23 - 25pts in 72GP
Age 24 - 32pts in 79GP
Age 25 - 1pt in 29GP...?
Age 26 - ?

Things are not looking good for him. So unless he turns things around, I expect that he doesn't get qualified this season, let alone get traded for anything higher than a 4th. We have younger, cheaper and better players pushing for forward spots.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Agree to disagree. I think you are overemphasizing his 4th line stats this year and underemphasizing his age, size and skill, the things scouts and GMs will focus on more than 4th line scoring stats.

The Colborne comparable is a good one in that they both don’t play as physical as you like. But the comparison is not exact as Jankowski is the far better centre and has a much better all around game. Smarter player, better defensively.

I could see the Flames giving up on Jankowski by trading him. But they won’t give him away for pennies on the dollar. And I’d say there’s almost no chance he would be unqualified. I think some of you folks underrate his value. He wasn’t a valueless throw in in the failed Kadri trade just like Fox wasn’t a valueless throw in in the Lindholm-Hanifin deal.

[David Struch]

I didn't know Joe Colborne fell off the map so hard...

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/joe-colborne

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I didn't know Joe Colborne fell off the map so hard...

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/joe-colborne

to be fair to Colborne he had major concussion issues

https://twitter.com/user/status/1111288872606928896

janko has fallen of the map for unknown reasons

1 point in 29 games and minus 10... Rinaldo has 2 goals and 1 assist in the 5 games he's played as a comparison

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sean Tierney has an article out at The Athletic today examining the best possible line combinations for the Flames, from an analytical perspective.

Let's just say it's a hot take.

https://theathletic.com/1452120/2019...shared-article

His proposal:

Gaudreau - Ryan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Rieder - Lindholm - Frolik
Lucic - Monahan - Quine

That gives analytics a pretty bad look. The thing is, sample selection means everything in analytics, and his selection looks lacking. The eye test says this :
Matthew Tkachuk - Elias Lindholm - Andrew Mangiapane
Dillon Dubé - Sean Monahan - Mikael Backlund
Milan Lucic - Derek Ryan - Johnny Gaudreau
Michel Frolik - Sam Bennett - Austin Czarnik
Jankowski

With Johnny seeing double shifts in the third (if needed) and powerplay time. Bennett and Czarnik on the second powerplay and second penalty kill. To me, analytics be damned, that's a lineup built for the playoffs.

[TheScorpion]

Phillips is the first to bite the dust, but now Bennett and Czarnik are back. Looks like the lineup won't change until a loss, but a change will have to come regardless with Czarnik soon to come off LTIR.

[EVERLAST]

I wanna see Dube get Jankowskis ice time. Not at all sold on Rinaldo...prefer Reider with Frolik.....butnthose 3 need to show up every night.

Czarnik was playing well before injury
Bennett could play better for Ward?

What I like is the conversation we CAN have about this. Man some depth is nice.

Wed be sorry if Tkachuk was more seriously injured because hes far more.important than hell 3ver get credit.

Wards doing well. I trust him. Hes got Gelinas on the bench with him and Conny up top .
Coaching is now interdependent instead of independent.

Johnny, Sean and Gio look like different players ....back to their old good.selfs .

[ForeverFlameFan]

The Flames are spreading the wealth. They’ve used Gaudreau on two different lines.

I’ve been impressed with Ward’s changes. Putting Johnny on the third line with Ryan and Lucic for a few shifts gets the opposing line’s bottom 6 against them... and Johnny kills them when that happens. And once Johnny is having a hell of a game and/or team is trailing by a goal or two, Johnny gets more ice time with Monahan and Backlund. It’s been working to perfection. And, when Johnny has bad games, Dube has been able to pick up more ice time. It has been a win-win situation for the all star winger and the up-and-coming rookie.