[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Hackey]

In the end I think the trade worked out for both teams but Calgary without Lindholm and Hanifin I think are quite a bit worse than Carolina without Hamilton.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Dougie Hamilton had asked to be traded.

Had that become public knowledge at the time, the return would've been much less IMO.

No complaints about the return the Flames ended up getting.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Dougie Hamilton had asked to be traded.

Had that become public knowledge at the time, the return would've been much less IMO.

No complaints about the return the Flames ended up getting.

Is that a fact? I hadn’t heard that before.

[Ryan Coke]

After watching Hamilton for the years he was here, I can’t say there has been a day since he was traded that I have wished he was still here. He’d be a great Oiler; gets points but has major flaws in the rest of his game. I haven’t watched him this year, but other than putting up points has he done a 180 to becoming a good all around player? I highly doubt it.

The team is better with him not on it, and the return has turned out very well. And if Hanifin takes another step, it will be even more lopsided.

But good for him that he is getting lots of points this year, though that was never the issue with him.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Is that a fact? I hadn’t heard that before.

'Most hockey writers know this'

Joking aside, yes this has been discussed. mostly on the Fan, I believe (Shannon & Friedman), that if Hamilton hadn't already asked for a trade, it was about to happen. He wasn't happy in Calgary.he wasn't happy with his deployment on the PP, and wasn't pleased with how the situation with his brother was handled.

Hamilton was getting moved. The fact Treliving got what he did, is some pretty solid work. Getting the two players for the cap hits he did was just as good.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'Most hockey writers know this'

Joking aside, yes this has been discussed. mostly on the Fan, I believe (Shannon & Friedman), that if Hamilton hadn't already asked for a trade, it was about to happen. He wasn't happy in Calgary.he wasn't happy with his deployment on the PP, and wasn't pleased with how the situation with his brother was handled.

Hamilton was getting moved. The fact Treliving got what he did, is some pretty solid work. Getting the two players for the cap hits he did was just as good.

Well I know some of the unhappy stuff has been discussed but to be honest the whole team was in disarray after that disastrous Gulutzan season. I didn’t know he actually asked for a trade, if that’s true or not. He absolutely should of been pissed about the PP stuff by the way.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Dougie Hamilton had asked to be traded.

Had that become public knowledge at the time, the return would've been much less IMO.

No complaints about the return the Flames ended up getting.

Fox wasn't going to play in Calgary. In retrospect maybe he could've been flipped to NYR in a separate deal, but considering the stable of fine, young defensemen currently under Flames employ, c'est la vie.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Well I know some of the unhappy stuff has been discussed but to be honest the whole team was in disarray after that disastrous Gulutzan season. I didn’t know he actually asked for a trade, if that’s true or not. He absolutely should of been pissed about the PP stuff by the way.

The deployment argument is certainly a legitimate gripe. No excuse for playing TJ Brodie over Hamilton at that point. Gulutzun dug his own grave with baffling decisions like this.

Freddie being waived on the other hand was drama typically reserved for other leagues. Having an active NHL roster spot occupied by Freddie Hamilton to placate Dougie was an absurd situation that both the Hamilton's and the Flames ultimately handled poorly. But at the end of the day, Dougie has to get over that. If keeping Dougie happy in Calgary meant keeping Freddie, the relationship was doomed anyway.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Is that a fact? I hadn’t heard that before.

We do know for a fact that he took off before the end of season interviews etc. which really pissed off team management. And Treliving made a point of saying we want guys who want to be here. I take that to mean that Hamilton wanted out.

To me it is part of a bigger story that the Flames simply don’t have a strong dressing room. Neal and his “attitude” was supposed to be what they were missing and we know how that went. This team badly needs some more home grown leaders so they can handle some different types on the team.

I’m sure Hamilton is no leader on Carolina either.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

We do know for a fact that he took off before the end of season interviews etc. which really pissed off team management. And Treliving made a point of saying we want guys who want to be here. I take that to mean that Hamilton wanted out.

To me it is part of a bigger story that the Flames simply don’t have a strong dressing room. Neal and his “attitude” was supposed to be what they were missing and we know how that went. This team badly needs some more home grown leaders so they can handle some different types on the team.

I’m sure Hamilton is no leader on Carolina either.

Yes, Hamilton no-showing the year end team meetings was effectively the 'I'm not coming back' statement.

You can add Brower and Lazar to the list of players Treliving has brought in to address 'character' in the room. Being on the outside we will never know what the issues on the room are, but suffice it to say Treliving is seeing something the public isn't. Certainly the inconsistency we've seen over the past 3-ish years speaks to this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yes, Hamilton no-showing the year end team meetings was effectively the 'I'm not coming back' statement.

You can add Brower and Lazar to the list of players Treliving has brought in to address 'character' in the room. Being on the outside we will never know what the issues on the room are, but suffice it to say Treliving is seeing something the public isn't. Certainly the inconsistency we've seen over the past 3-ish years speaks to this.

Well Treliving traded for Hamilton, signed Brouwer who wasn't great in the locker room nor was Neal apparently so Treliving seems to have a bad habit of bringing in players to address character that make things worse so I'm not exactly sure about what Treliving see's out of his glasses. Lazar was brought in because I assume local scouts liked him when he played in Edmonton as you don't bring in a developing player to address locker room issues.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well Treliving traded for Hamilton, signed Brouwer who wasn't great in the locker room nor was Neal apparently so Treliving seems to have a bad habit of bringing in players to address character that make things worse so I'm not exactly sure about what Treliving see's out of his glasses. Lazar was brought in because I assume local scouts liked him when he played in Edmonton as you don't bring in a developing player to address locker room issues.

Hamilton wasn't brought in because of leadership qualities - he was brought in because he has a lot of on-ice tools. I've never heard Brouwer wasn't great in the locker room. I heard the opposite. Neal wasn't brought in for leadership. He was supposedly a PO performer, and a consistent goalscorer who could fill a top six winger position. Also, Neal's off ice issues weren't necessarily locker room related but I supposed they could have rubbed off there. There, I do think Treliving could have done a bit more homework.

Lazar wasn't brought in for leadership either, though they liked his character (and who didn't). It was a "first round pick who maybe needs a change of scenery to reach his potential" trade.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamilton wasn't brought in because of leadership qualities - he was brought in because he has a lot of on-ice tools. I've never heard Brouwer wasn't great in the locker room. I heard the opposite. Neal wasn't brought in for leadership. He was supposedly a PO performer, and a consistent goalscorer who could fill a top six winger position. Also, Neal's off ice issues weren't necessarily locker room related but I supposed they could have rubbed off there. There, I do think Treliving could have done a bit more homework.

Lazar wasn't brought in for leadership either, though they liked his character (and who didn't). It was a "first round pick who maybe needs a change of scenery to reach his potential" trade.

I had heard that Brouwer wasn't happy with Gulutzan and his usage along the same lines of Neal with Peters. I think even Boomer and the morning guys brought it up a few times.

[The Cobra]

I think it became well known after the trade of Hamilton that he wasn't fitting into the team particularly well.

FWIW, Boston felt the need to deal him also.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yes, Hamilton no-showing the year end team meetings was effectively the 'I'm not coming back' statement.

You can add Brower and Lazar to the list of players Treliving has brought in to address 'character' in the room. Being on the outside we will never know what the issues on the room are, but suffice it to say Treliving is seeing something the public isn't. Certainly the inconsistency we've seen over the past 3-ish years speaks to this.

This didn't happen. It was the media availability.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I had heard that Brouwer wasn't happy with Gulutzan and his usage along the same lines of Neal with Peters. I think even Boomer and the morning guys brought it up a few times.

Maybe, but I think that's different than being bad in the room. Is Frolik bad in the room, because he's been vocal (through his agent) about usage?

Brouwer was a pretty good teammate by all accounts, and he did step up for teammates on the ice a fair bit. FWIW I have never heard anyone say that teammates didn't like Neal either (like what you heard about Phaneuf or Hamilton for example), and he was smiling and laughing on the bench a lot. I always heard his issues were different than that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe, but I think that's different than being bad in the room. Is Frolik bad in the room, because he's been vocal (through his agent) about usage?

Brouwer was a pretty good teammate by all accounts, and he did step up for teammates on the ice a fair bit. FWIW I have never heard anyone say that teammates didn't like Neal either (like what you heard about Phaneuf or Hamilton for example), and he was smiling and laughing on the bench a lot. I always heard his issues were different than that.

Neal has a history of attitude and acting like a superstar and because of it, he rubs some teammates the wrong way. I have heard Friedman talk about it.

IIRC Treliving specifically mentioned that he thought Flames could use some of the swagger that Neal brought.

You can define bad in the room however you want but Neal has never been considered a popular teammate.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Neal has a history of attitude and acting like a superstar and because of it, he rubs some teammates the wrong way. I have heard Friedman talk about it.

IIRC Treliving specifically mentioned that he thought Flames could use some of the swagger that Neal brought.

You can define bad in the room however you want but Neal has never been considered a popular teammate.

Fair enough, and I don't think Neal should ever have been a popular teammate (I only said I never heard he was disliked, but I stand to be corrected there).

I would say that stuff like what Treliving might have said post signing needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You sign the guy and then you say a whole bunch of stuff, including stuff that wasn't a factor in the signing, but you think sounds good.

Treliving may have mistaken swagger for stagger, too.

[Erick Estrada]

I think the moral of the story is that free agency is never the answer regardless of team needs. Team needs scoring, character, leadership, etc you have to trade or develope that as the odds are not in favor of quick fixes. The only free agency success stories are usually the ones that happen after the first week when teams get quality players on more favorable deals.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think the moral of the story is that free agency is never the answer regardless of team needs. Team needs scoring, character, leadership, etc you have to trade or develope that as the odds are not in favor of quick fixes. The only free agency success stories are usually the ones that happen after the first week when teams get quality players on more favorable deals.

Fair enough. I think that even guys who are great leaders on one team may not be on another, with a different group of guys. I mean, it's not like it's common for a guy to come in and immediately assume leadership and if he tries he might be resented. Real rapport takes time. I'd imagine trades are the same.