[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

What an observation, wow

They do. And like I said, “finalist” is even a misnomer, the way they do it.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They do. And like I said, “finalist” is even a misnomer, the way they do it.

I mean it’s literally semantics. Saying all defence men compete for the Norris is like saying all people compete for the presidency. It’s just silly. You know exactly what I’m alluding to when I say he’s competing for the Norris and yet you wanna twist it in some weird way. Like the finalists thing. The top three vote getters are named as finalists. It’s actually not a misnomer at all. But whatever.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Everyone says so."

Not even a "Some people say..." but instead a "most people..."

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Not even a "Some people say..." but instead a "most people..."

Most hockey writers that cover the league on a more league wide level (ie not local beat writers) are saying he’s in contention for the Norris. Ya. I actually should just go ahead and say all of them are.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Most hockey writers that cover the league on a more league wide level (ie not local beat writers) are saying he’s in contention for the Norris. Ya. I actually should just go ahead and say all of them are.

You've just re-phrased your original claim. Back it up. I was honestly asking as sometimes you see a straw poll or something similar.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by the2bears

You've just re-phrased your original claim. Back it up. I was honestly asking as sometimes you see a straw poll or something similar.

I said most people in the hockey world. I guess that’s open to interpretation but to me it is people who cover the league as a career or have some kind of following that values their opinion, like Evolving Wild as an example. I do not consider fans or message board people like you and me as being a part of the hockey world.

Back what up? You want me to list all the league wide media types to prove a fairly wide observation? Lol

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I mean it’s literally semantics. Saying all defence men compete for the Norris is like saying all people compete for the presidency. It’s just silly. You know exactly what I’m alluding to when I say he’s competing for the Norris and yet you wanna twist it in some weird way. Like the finalists thing. The top three vote getters are named as finalists. It’s actually not a misnomer at all. But whatever.

Actually, not all people compete for the presidency. They have to run. More to the point, saying someone is “competing for a Norris” is goofy, especially at this point. I doubt they are even thinking about it.

And yes, the “finalist” thing is a misnomer. It suggests there are “finals” when in fact there is one vote.

In any event, finishing high in Norris voting isn’t necessarily an indicator of being an elite defencemen, because there’s a number of examples of that happening for guys who don’t do it any other year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I said most people in the hockey world. I guess that’s open to interpretation but to me it is people who cover the league as a career or have some kind of following that values their opinion, like Evolving Wild as an example. I do not consider fans or message board people like you and me as being a part of the hockey world.

So no polls or anything? Just something you’ve assumed.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So no polls or anything? Just something you’ve assumed.

Such a weird thing. I need to get a poll? A poll of what? Of sportswriters? To prove that Dougie Hamilton is being talked about as a Norris contender by most writers? What the hell does this even mean. Do you read anyone league wide? Can you point to one who has talked about the Norris and not mentioned Dougie Hamilton as being in contention? This argument is so stupid anyway. He’s clearly in the top end of defencemen in the NHL this season and I don’t know how that can be argued. His numbers are elite across the board.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I said most people in the hockey world. I guess that’s open to interpretation but to me it is people who cover the league as a career or have some kind of following that values their opinion, like Evolving Wild as an example. I do not consider fans or message board people like you and me as being a part of the hockey world.

Back what up? You want me to list all the league wide media types to prove a fairly wide observation? Lol

Sounds more like you have no idea what "most people" think. What's worse than an appeal to authority? An appeal to a made up authority.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Actually, not all people compete for the presidency. They have to run. More to the point, saying someone is “competing for a Norris” is goofy, especially at this point. I doubt they are even thinking about it.

And yes, the “finalist” thing is a misnomer. It suggests there are “finals” when in fact there is one vote.

In any event, finishing high in Norris voting isn’t necessarily an indicator of being an elite defencemen, because there’s a number of examples of that happening for guys who don’t do it any other year.

Lol oh my god I’m done with whatever this is.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Sounds more like you have no idea what "most people" think. What's worse than an appeal to authority? An appeal to a made up authority.

Ya, cool.

[Jiri Hrdina]

To help end this conversation here is an article where nhl.com surveyed some writers
https://www.nhl.com/news/norris-trop...on/c-311557918

[timbit]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I said most people in the hockey world. I guess that’s open to interpretation but to me it is people who cover the league as a career or have some kind of following that values their opinion, like Evolving Wild as an example. I do not consider fans or message board people like you and me as being a part of the hockey world.

Back what up? You want me to list all the league wide media types to prove a fairly wide observation? Lol

Hamilton is a long ways from being the best Dman on Carolina. Jaccob Slavic is...and it’s not even close.

Although, I’m not a “league wide media type”.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Such a weird thing. I need to get a poll? A poll of what? Of sportswriters? To prove that Dougie Hamilton is being talked about as a Norris contender by most writers? What the hell does this even mean. Do you read anyone league wide? Can you point to one who has talked about the Norris and not mentioned Dougie Hamilton as being in contention? This argument is so stupid anyway. He’s clearly in the top end of defencemen in the NHL this season and I don’t know how that can be argued. His numbers are elite across the board.

You didn’t say “talked about as a Norris contender”. You said most writers think he’s the front runner.

In a year when Carlson has almost double his points.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You didn’t say “talked about as a Norris contender”. You said most writers think he’s the front runner.

In a year when Carlson has almost double his points.

Well since the only argument you have is semantics, I actually said he was ‘a front runner’ alluding that there are several front runners. But doesn’t actually matter because once you have to rely on semantics like ‘there’s not actually finalists for the Norris’ or ‘everyone is competing for the Norris’ then obviously you don’t have a real argument so I’m going to stop engaging with whatever that crap is.

Also, I see Jiri posted something that has a poll where Hamilton came in second... or as some might say... a front runner...

[DeluxeMoustache]

I see this argument and note that when debating the merits of the trade, slam dunks are worth the same as normal baskets and 2/3 as much as three pointers. Just a lot more sizzle than steak.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by timbit

Hamilton is a long ways from being the best Dman on Carolina. Jaccob Slavic is...and it’s not even close.

Although, I’m not a “league wide media type”.

Ya well happily disagree with that big time but Slavin is a good player. But Hamilton is a better player and it isn’t even close, in my opinion.

And no you aren’t, and neither am I. No idea what point that’s supposed to make.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Well since the only argument you have is semantics, I actually said he was ‘a front runner’ alluding that there are several front runners. But doesn’t actually matter because once you have to rely on semantics like ‘there’s not actually finalists for the Norris’ or ‘everyone is competing for the Norris’ then obviously you don’t have a real argument so I’m going to stop engaging with whatever that crap is.

Also, I see Jiri posted something that has a poll where Hamilton came in second... or as some might say... a front runner...

A front runner is the favourite. It’s literally defined as the one Leading a contest. I’m surprised you don’t know this. Or perhaps you do and are just backpedaling.

My point about contending, using hyperbole, is that its a very wide category.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A front runner is the favourite. It’s literally defined as the one Leading a contest. I’m surprised you don’t know this. Or perhaps you do and are just backpedaling.

My point about contending, using hyperbole, is that its a very wide category.

Again, all you can is refer to semantics over how something was described because you have no argument. Garbage is all that is.