NDP calls for ban on ATM fees

[Winsor_Pilates]

I have a PC account and it has saved me a lot of money. CIBC machines are the most prevelent machines in Canada and they are free with a PC account.

The only downside, is no face to face tellers and they hold deposits for annoying amounts of time.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder if an NDP government would consider a nationalized public bank. Not to necessarily make all banking nationalized (that would never fly), but to open a federal "credit union" that people could become members of. That way, they could charge no service fees and make a killing on interest like private banks do. Private banks could keep charging fees if they wanted, although they would probably have to stop because of the new option.

So . . . . what does Alberta Treasury Branch charge you in these circumstances?

Do USA, UK, German, Dutch, Egyptian banks, etc charge similar fees in similar circumstances?

Also, you are increasingly seeing foreign banks coming into Canada and cherry-picking lucrative aspects of banking - such as visa's or bank machines - while avoiding the infrastrucutre costs that many take for granted, such as physical branches.'

In other words, you can probably be charged $1.50 per transaction because that's what the foreign competition which does nothing else in this country is also doing . . . . and you're paying because you choose to.

Cowperson

[ShaolinFlame]

This makes no sense, as without a service charge, there is no incentive for two things:
1) THe companies, entrepeneurs (SP)(my friends mom owns a ton thanks to her husbands infiinite cash flow) who purchase these ATMS, put their names on it or w/e, and then sell the machine to whoever. These people would cease to exists (not the end of the world in my view). however...

2) your local corner store, drinking establishment, or where ever you may happen to get cash that is not a bank named machine. Without service charges these ATMs do not exist. You would be having to go to a bank every time you want money.

I would much rather have the choice of free withdrawl at my branch alongside the 4$ i might see at the bar when i dont necesarilly have the time, energy, or means to go to the bank. As opposed to free withdrawl at all branches.

As a bit of an aside, this is yet another incredibly stupid NDP ploy to maybe get votes from the 1% of people who actually have a huge issue with this. Clearly it is a very small people as the machine tells you what your losing and you have to agree, and i assume most every person understand how they are charged. The utility for the service of insta cash to the average consumer is $2.00-$4.00 (corner store - da cluuub). The market has set its price. If people are willing to muster these charges for this service then they are at least breaking even (as the Oppurtunity Cost of going all the way to the bank mut clearly be more than the 4 dollars). So getting rid of this is stupid, if it irks you that much don't stiffle ATM service, jsut go to your damn bank, and if it's not cose enough to you, etc, change banks. It's that easy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

So . . . . what does Alberta Treasury Branch charge you in these circumstances?

Do USA, UK, German, Dutch, Egyptian banks, etc charge similar fees in similar circumstances?

Also, you are increasingly seeing foreign banks coming into Canada and cherry-picking lucrative aspects of banking - such as visa's or bank machines - while avoiding the infrastrucutre costs that many take for granted, such as physical branches.'

In other words, you can probably be charged $1.50 per transaction because that's what the foreign competition which does nothing else in this country is also doing . . . . and you're paying because you choose to.

Cowperson

I don't know. In all honesty, I don't know how banks work at all.

I was just thinking, if people are going to hand over billions to banks willingly by choosing to pay their fees and interest, then why wouldn't the government want in on that by offering personal banking to the people. At least the profit can be put into public use.

I'm not complaining about bank fees because I can avoid them if I want, but why not make it easier for people? Then again, it probably wouldn't work. I doubt I am the first person to think of it.

As a related note, I did live in a town before that only had 2 bank machines, so I couldn't avoid the dings. Anyone who lives in the Harrison-Agassiz area knows what I mean.

[jamesteterenko]

Wow, it sounds like I am one of the few that thinks this plan is silly. When I opened the thread, I thought it was going to be an NDP bashing thread. I personally believe that government should generally stay out of private businesses. There is no way that having access to ATMs across the country for free is a right that needs to be protected.

It isn't that hard to avoid these fees. I've probably paid only one ATM transaction fee in the last five years (I went to a Flames game with no cash and had supper at the Dome). I have a bank account that doesn't charge any fees with a minimum balance of $1000. I've heard some people argue that they can't afford to have that much money sitting around. But if you can afford spending $200/year on transaction fees but not a minimum balance, you probably have other financial management issues.

I avoid using cash whenever possible. My first choice is to use a credit card. There is no fee for that (I pay the balance every month), and I get money back for using it. If it is a place that doesn't take credit cards, I'll use Interac if they don't charge a fee, then resort to cash after that. In terms of my average monthly spending, I wouldn't be suprised if paid cash for less than 5% of it.

In terms of withdrawing cash, there two TDs within a couple of blocks from where I work, one ATM between home to work (I walk to work), and another branch a couple blocks away from home. It is not inconvenient at all to get money out from a TD. I don't think that TD is necessarily more prevalent than other banks, but I know where those are because I use them.

And as a shareholder of one of the banks (RBC), I don't really have a problem with them making a bunch of money off people who seem to have lazy habits that can't be controlled without government intervention. I am sure I will get attack for my point of view, but seriously, why does the goverment need to step in for an issue you can control yourself?

James.

[ShaolinFlame]

to think i used economics to bash this stupid NDP crap, i like your common sense post mush better james.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I was just thinking, if people are going to hand over billions to banks willingly by choosing to pay their fees and interest, then why wouldn't the government want in on that by offering personal banking to the people. At least the profit can be put into public use.

.

Why have any businesses at all?

By the way, it appears the Alberta Treasury Branch, owned by the government, charges $1.50 per ATM transaction if you're not a customer of theirs.

Cowperson

[JimmytheT]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Why have any businesses at all?

By the way, it appears the Alberta Treasury Branch, owned by the government, charges $1.50 per ATM transaction if you're not a customer of theirs.

Cowperson

It is true ATB's shareholder is the AB Gov't, however it is run by a seperate board of directors and as such, behaves as any other banking institution in Canada does.
Prior to 1997 of course, ATB had issues as it literally was a branch of the Alberta Treasury, and was managed from the top by politicians, not business people.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What I'd like to know is why there is braille on drive thru bank machines.

In case NHL referees need to pick up some cash after the game.

[RW99]

Originally Posted by Log

I don't see a problem with this one..... If you have bad enough money management and write a bunch of rubber cheques, then so be it! Tisk Tisk. However if you write a bad cheque once and have a decent reason for it going bad, the bank I'm sure will waive those fees once.... if you ask them to.

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

HA, this one makes me laugh. Please don't complain about a fee for doing something that is ILLEGAL.
How about not writing cheques for money you do not have or have the money available in your account for a schedule automatic payment?
NSF fees are high to act as an incentive not write NSF cheques etc.

Thanks for jumping on me You know, some stuff does happen by mistake. For example, Paypal. I bought something on paypal a few months ago and it went straight to my credit card. Bought something last month and it went straight to my bank instead, and charged NSF. Yes, it was my error for not noticing the changes in Paypal.

But please don't make it sound like it's all about people doing things illegally.

[transplant99]

She noted that banks in other countries, including the U.K. and U.S., do not charge additional fees when a consumer uses a competitor's ABM.

News to me.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by JimmytheT

It is true ATB's shareholder is the AB Gov't, however it is run by a seperate board of directors and as such, behaves as any other banking institution in Canada does.
Prior to 1997 of course, ATB had issues as it literally was a branch of the Alberta Treasury, and was managed from the top by politicians, not business people.

ATB/West Edmonton Mall loan scandal anyone?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

In case NHL referees need to pick up some cash after the game.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY!!!!!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

News to me.

How does it work in the US? She might be referring to the double dipping that often goes on with Canadian banks.

ie: If you are a CIBC customer and you go through a TD machine, then TD charges you $1.50 for the transaction as a non-TD customer, while CIBC charges another $1.50 for using someone else's ATM.

[Sample00]

The government should stay out of banking!
the government should be there to govern and not be involved in business ala ATB. Having a provincial or federally run financial institution changes the playing field. Banks have to follow the guidelines set out by the Federal and Provincial governments, yet the ATB can just make up the rules as they go along.
ie) downpayments on purchasing homes, business loans, service charges etc.
and the real issue I have with it is, is that its our tax dollars at work with them making lending or investment decisions that may not be totally sound business decisions.
the list with ATB seems to be endless.
WEM/ATB thing as previously eluded to and of course we are all familiar with the Pocklington fiasco

[Sylvanfan]

By eliminating bank fees for ATM's they're basically taking away a certain bussiness in the country's right to make money. So if they take away that bussinesses right to make money, what's next for regulation? It's one thing to regulate a bank and say that they can't charge their customers a fee to use their ATM's. But to say no one can....

I absolutely avoid withdrawing money from an ATM where it's going to cost me money unless I need the cash right than and there. But there are a lot of people who will go take $20 out of an ATM that charges a $1.50 withdrawal fee. Rather than view it as interest I prefer to see it as a surcharge, and 1.50 for 20 bucks is a 7.5% surcharge.

In a free market and free society we have the right to get our money from whereever we want and to keep it where we want. So I don't see why the government should regulate a bussiness to protect people from the poor choices they make. Whats next we'll have a big government central bank where we're forced to keep our money?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

How does it work in the US? She might be referring to the double dipping that often goes on with Canadian banks.

ie: If you are a CIBC customer and you go through a TD machine, then TD charges you $1.50 for the transaction as a non-TD customer, while CIBC charges another $1.50 for using someone else's ATM.

How is that double dipping?

You can only say that if CIBC and TD were a single entity . . . which they're not.

Each has a fee . . . .

By the way, I think if we looked we would find that bank card trends are actually declining as people use debit more to avoid fees . . . .

Prior to 1997 of course, ATB had issues as it literally was a branch of the Alberta Treasury, and was managed from the top by politicians, not business people.

An obvious example of a government failing when it tried to run a business . . . . . in the end it probably cost taxpayers money instead of helping them.

Cowperson

[troutman]

ING - no fees?

http://www.ingdirect.ca/en/aboutindex.html

As you may have noticed, ING DIRECT isn't like your regular bank. For one thing, we have no branches. And because you do everything with us by Internet, phone, or ABM, we're able to pass those savings on to you, with much higher interest on deposits, lower interest on loans, and by charging no fees or service charges.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by troutman

ING - no fees?

http://www.ingdirect.ca/en/aboutindex.html

As you may have noticed, ING DIRECT isn't like your regular bank. For one thing, we have no branches. And because you do everything with us by Internet, phone, or ABM, we're able to pass those savings on to you, with much higher interest on deposits, lower interest on loans, and by charging no fees or service charges.

But you would still get charged by the original banks machine.

[Sylvanfan]

I think ING has an agreement with certain banks where you can use their machines for like 4 withdrawals a month or something like that. I think they also have their own ABM in like 1 location in cities like Calgary and Edmonton.

For example I use Presidents Choice no fee banking for my chequing account and I can use their machine or CIBC machines for no fee. But if I use any other bank machine I pay a fee. So it's only no fee banking, if I use the right banks. But theres a reason they give you brochures with fine print.....you're supposed to read them to find loopholes.