Godless Apostate

[peter12]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

To us long term atheists, you might as well just say you are open to the possibility of unicorns or Easter Bunnies.

Atheists like you validate my agnosticism even more than the fervent Christians I grew up with.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by peter12

Atheists like you validate my agnosticism even more than the fervent Christians I grew up with.

A pretty shallow pool and doesn't do well with nuance. Also edgy like a 14 year old. Once you notice how consistent it is, it's actually pretty funny.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cheese

If you dont mind the ask...was there a specific turning or tipping point, or was it just a time-driven experience?

Definitely a time-driven experience.

1. Ten years ago my critical disposition honed from years of post-graduate research had preconditioned me to pose my questions much more broadly beyond the historical claims of Christianity to all manner of history, sociology, psychology, etc.

2. Beginning in 2012, while living for three years in Norway, my family stopped attending church. At first this was because of the language barrier. Over time—and after enduring an enormous amount of guilt, we lost any motivation to return.

3. In the final year of my Norwegian contract in 2015, my wife and kids returned to Canada, and she took a job here in BC. Functioning as a single parent and with an auto-immune disease, she also became simply too exhausted to attend church on Sundays, or any other day.

4. I have become progressively more and more disillusioned by the integration of Christianity in academics at the confessional school where I have been employed. The power dynamics are the same, if not more pronounced.

5. I think if there was a tipping point, it was in the course of hours of interviews with a reporter from CNN in 2017. At one point he basically called me out, and it started becoming impossible to deny where I had arrived.

I don't know that this makes me a happier person. It has a direct impact on my livelihood, my circle of friends, my relationships with my extended family. But like I told my mother, I can't choose what I believe, and I am not going to lie about it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by peter12

Atheists like you validate my agnosticism even more than the fervent Christians I grew up with.

I guess atheists aren't all the same after all. I think being open to the possibility of god is entirely consistent with atheism. It would require actual evidence of such, though. Until such evidence is provided, it seems like a much better position to view god as not likely/not required.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by peter12

Atheists like you validate my agnosticism even more than the fervent Christians I grew up with.

and agnostics like you validate my atheism even more than the flaky religious hypocrites I grew up with

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I guess atheists aren't all the same after all. I think being open to the possibility of god is entirely consistent with atheism. It would require actual evidence of such, though. Until such evidence is provided, it seems like a much better position to view god as not likely/not required.

or just not, is more accurate.

[stone hands]

fwiw i am athiest, but its mostly because of my upbringing in that religion wasnt a part of my life i had to reject, it just wasnt there at all. i suspect people who came from a religious background who are athiest now might have a more militaristic view of religion compared to me

[DuffMan]

my great grandparents were extremely religious, my grandparents were very religious, my parents are somewhat religious. my wife and I are not religious, my kid is definitely not religious.

[nik-]

I'm agnostic, generally I just don't believe in god but who knows. I don't see why we should celebrate certainty for one side of an unprovable notion and vitriolically deride certainty on the other side. That seems pretty arrogant to me.

[jammies]

Fervent belief that there are no gods is no more defensible than belief in a god. Don't "believe" anything, instead place statements on a spectrum from nearly certain to extremely unlikely. Essentially, be an agnostic about everything, which doesn't prevent you from having an opinion, just from an unreasoned one.

[Dion]

I was a member of an Evangelical church for 15 years before I left. Something happened to a good friend of mine and I lost all faith in God and organised religion.

There was a woman in our church at the time who was suffering from severe manic depression. She would often have to make trips to the hospital due to her condition. She was also separated from her husband at the time. My good friend would drive her to the hospital and visit with her when she was in there. Over time they became good friends.

The elders of the church would often see them sitting together and my friend was soon after called into a meeting with the Church board. They told him it was not proper for them to be sitting together and he needed to end his relationship with her due to the fact she was separated but still married.

He said he needed time to break the relationship as the woman had fallen in love with him. She was in a fragile state and all. The board responded saying it had to be now or his membership would be taken away. He said he couldn't end it now and they took it.

A few days later I went to my see my pastor and told him where he could stick my membership

The whole thing left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. The church was so focused on it's image and that they forgot about forgiveness.

[CliffFletcher]

Western, secular democracies like Canada and Germany may be losing their religion, but the global picture looks different.

If you think religion belongs to the past and we live in a new age of reason, you need to check out the facts: 84% of the world’s population identifies with a religious group. Members of this demographic are generally younger and produce more children than those who have no religious affiliation, so the world is getting more religious, not less – although there are significant geographical variations.

...And while the religiously unaffiliated currently make up 16% of the global population, only about 10% of the world’s newborns were born to religiously unaffiliated mothers between 2010 and 2015.

...China has seen a huge religious revival in recent years and some predict it will have the world’s largest Christian population by 2030. The number of Chinese Protestants has grown by an average of 10 % annually since 1979, to between 93 million and 115 million, according to one estimate. There are reckoned to be another 10-12 million Catholics.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...t-happens-next

My daughter's basketball practices take place in school gyms all over south Calgary, and recently I picked her up from a Christian Academy. As I was waiting, I walked over to look at the pictures of classes on the walls, expecting to see a bunch of pasty Europeans. I was surprised to see almost half the students were non-European.

As a country whose growth today comes largely from immigration, I'm not so sure Canada's religiosity numbers will continue to decline over the next 30 years the way they did in the last 30.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know. I find that I continue to have a difficult time saying that I am an atheist. I probably am—at least functionally (but I think the joke in there is that all of us are basically functionally atheists). I am probably an atheist in that I see no good evidence for the existence of a god, but I am completely open to the possibility of a god.

We still have not told most of our families and friends. A select few know, and we continue to worry about fallout. This has certainly put a hitch in my own vocation.

Is it possible you'll be better at your job? I'd think being agnostic/atheist/areligious would allow you to be more objective in your work. It's a pretty strong bias to be religious while studying religion (not to say you couldn't be professional about it).

[GGG]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

yes, science and critical thinking are replacing religion in most advanced societies.

I don’t know if that’s true. Facebook memes and group think are replacing religion not science and critical thinking.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm agnostic, generally I just don't believe in god but who knows. I don't see why we should celebrate certainty for one side of an unprovable notion and vitriolically deride certainty on the other side. That seems pretty arrogant to me.

I agree the agnostic position makes sense. But along with being agnostic their is the atheist vs theist question. I think it’s a very reasonable statement to say there is nothing currently known in the universe that requires the existence of God or (for the the religious techies) a simulation to exist.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by GGG

I agree the agnostic position makes sense. But along with being agnostic their is the atheist vs theist question. I think it’s a very reasonable statement to say there is nothing currently known in the universe that requires the existence of God or (for the the religious techies) a simulation to exist.

In my own personal case of atheism, it’s more so that the idea of a creator or religion doesn’t even cross my mind - it’s not so much as a “does god exist y/n”, it’s more of that question doesn’t have any bearing to me, it would be like me asking your opinion on the oglopprkupis of planet gag6555 or what does the colour red smell like. The universe and existence just being how things are was always a good enough explanation to me, so to be asked if I believe in a concept other people do or not is a “no” by default

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Western, secular democracies like Canada and Germany may be losing their religion, but the global picture looks different.



My daughter's basketball practices take place in school gyms all over south Calgary, and recently I picked her up from a Christian Academy. As I was waiting, I walked over to look at the pictures of classes on the walls, expecting to see a bunch of pasty Europeans. I was surprised to see almost half the students were non-European.

As a country whose growth today comes largely from immigration, I'm not so sure Canada's religiosity numbers will continue to decline over the next 30 years the way they did in the last 30.

This is exactly my experience as well. In my last few years @ TWU my classes have become increasingly more and more populated by International students. I gave a directed study this summer in Ancient Israelite Religion, and my student was a minister from China with designs on studying here and returning to church ministry back home.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Is it possible you'll be better at your job? I'd think being agnostic/atheist/areligious would allow you to be more objective in your work. It's a pretty strong bias to be religious while studying religion (not to say you couldn't be professional about it).

It’s not a matter of professionalism and ability (I would like to think that I have been operating with a healthy understanding of my own biases and blind spots for a while now; and I don't think "being religious" would undercut my ability to be critical about it any more than being non-religious. Most scholars of religion are religious). The problem is the nature of my field. The vast majority of positions are at Christian or Jewish schools which require a specific confessional declaration. My own contract at TWU ends today, and even in the event that they chose to renew my contract, I could no longer sign one on account of my rejection of the community standards agreement.

[Fuzz]

What percentage of staff do you think lie on those declarations so they can have a job?


Side note on that, it also seems crazy we as a country allow anyone to be discriminated on based on their beliefs, or lack thereof. Has this ever been charter challenged?

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

To us long term atheists, you might as well just say you are open to the possibility of unicorns or Easter Bunnies.

Or a non-self-righteous atheist.