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Old 11-27-2019, 10:31 AM   #681
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the more allegations come out about peters from previous organizations, the worse it looks for the flames IMO
Flames are actually doing something about it while all the other teams turned a blind eye
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:34 AM   #682
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Flames are actually doing something about it while all the other teams turned a blind eye
To be fair, that’s not by choice. The Flames are equally complicit in turning a blind eye, just not any more so than those organisations.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:35 AM   #683
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the more allegations come out about peters from previous organizations, the worse it looks for the flames IMO
I don't know if I put that association as strongly on the Flames as you may.

Negligence? No
Ignorance? Well, maybe.

Perhaps, from a headline glancing, casual hockey viewer. They'd only need to dig deeper, to see the immediate releases from our GM, that they are investigating this thoroughly.

Bowman & Francis, are wearing this mud much thicker, imho.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:35 AM   #684
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This is such a huge headache for that organization.

We also know that while the GM is the GM, their hierarchy does not run top down through him. If this is a problem for them, they will keep their hockey ops department in tact and find a new GM that fits their org IMO.

No fiefdom there, just a very expectant ownership that needs this venture to hit the ground running, not be putting out player abuse fires before they ever play a game.
How do we know any of this stuff? It sure looks like Francis was surrounding himself with his own people—Ricky Olczyk followed him from Carolina to assume the same position in Seattle.

It's so bizarre how readily you jump to one conclusion about the Flames org, and then the opposite for another team.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:36 AM   #685
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:37 AM   #686
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I don't know if I put that association as strongly on the Flames as you may.

Negligence? No
Ignorance? Well, maybe.

Perhaps, from a headline glancing, casual hockey viewer. They'd only need to dig deeper, to see the immediate releases from our GM, that they are investigating this thoroughly.

Bowman & Francis, are wearing this mud much thicker, imho.
What will be interesting is if anything happened in his tenure with the Flames that is abusive or otherwise bad behaviour.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:38 AM   #687
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How so?
Harder to say it was impossible to know.

I don't believe for a second that Tre knew anything of the Peters/Aliu allegations, but the more #### that comes out about Peters, the harder it will be to say no one knew. Much more likely as Textcritic points out, no one really cared.

That's turning out to be an indefensible position.

Hell, I'm not involved in hockey at all and yet even I was hearing some of this stuff.

The point i'm getting at is, Treliving knew Peters was a hardass, that's the reason he hired him. He either didn't have the connections to know this info or he didn't care to look into it, but either way, it doesn't shine brightly on the organization or on Treliving.

If Rod the Bod is confirming this on record, does that mean no one in the Flames organization reached out to ask a very respected member of the hockey community about what it was like to be on Peters' staff?

To me, that's what has the stink all over it. Targeted hire. No extensive interview process. End up with a stick of dynamite.

How do you trust Treliving's decision making ability going forward after such a massive, public, failure? Is he part of the culture problem or part of the solution? Hard to argue the solution at this point.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:39 AM   #688
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To be fair, that’s not by choice. The Flames are equally complicit in turning a blind eye, just not any more so than those organisations.
What incident in Calgary did the Flames turn a blind eye to?

Listen, I have no doubt Peters hard-ass approach was used here but so far no incident has came out. Truly hope nothing besides the typical dickhead coach methods were used but unless anything has surfaced that I missed, the Flames are no more complicit, nor turned a blind eye more so than every other organization in the NHL.

The Flames are currently employing a guy who had several reported incidents, none while under their employ. Perhaps that will change though. Hope not.

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Old 11-27-2019, 10:41 AM   #689
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Weird. So, here Brind'Amour says that "management handled it correctly." What does that mean? The incident in question occurred in the 2015–16 season, and both Ron Francis and Bill Peters remained employed in Carolina for two more years.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:43 AM   #690
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Weird. So, here Brind'Amour says that "management handled it correctly." What does that mean? The ancient in question occurred in the 2015–16 season, and both Ron Francis and Bill Peters remained employed in Carolina for two more years.
It means that they considered the facts of the incident, did their internal process, and addressed it.

He also says that nothing like that happened again following this given incident... Which to me would be at least enough of a check in the box for Tre if he knew about this incident during hiring and if everyone at CAR said "hey it was an incident, we handled it, and nothing has happened negatively since" Then pretty sure that is good enough
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:46 AM   #691
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Weird. So, here Brind'Amour says that "management handled it correctly." What does that mean? The ancient in question occurred in the 2015–16 season, and both Ron Francis and Bill Peters remained employed in Carolina for two more years.
Because he wasn't fired doesn't mean that disciplinary action wasn't taken.

Personnel issues are rarely, if ever, resolved publicly with everyone knowing what happened. That is just a fact of business life.

Anything else, frankly, is irresponsible on the part of the employer.

If the individual wishes to publicly address the employment issue and its consequences, they have every right to do so, and it is solely that person's choice. No one has a "right" to know otherwise. Period.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:46 AM   #692
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...If Rod the Bod is confirming this on record, does that mean no one in the Flames organization reached out to ask a very respected member of the hockey community about what it was like to be on Peters' staff?...
Listen to Brind'Amour's comments. If he or others in the Carolina organization were asked about Peters's controversial behaviour, it seems the likely response was "this happened, the players and management dealt with it properly, and there have been no subsequent issues."

Again, it is difficult to see how Treliving or the Flames should be culpable for things about which they had no first hand information.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:47 AM   #693
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Harder to say it was impossible to know.

I don't believe for a second that Tre knew anything of the Peters/Aliu allegations, but the more #### that comes out about Peters, the harder it will be to say no one knew. Much more likely as Textcritic points out, no one really cared.

That's turning out to be an indefensible position.

Hell, I'm not involved in hockey at all and yet even I was hearing some of this stuff.

The point i'm getting at is, Treliving knew Peters was a hardass, that's the reason he hired him. He either didn't have the connections to know this info or he didn't care to look into it, but either way, it doesn't shine brightly on the organization or on Treliving.

If Rod the Bod is confirming this on record, does that mean no one in the Flames organization reached out to ask a very respected member of the hockey community about what it was like to be on Peters' staff?

To me, that's what has the stink all over it. Targeted hire. No extensive interview process. End up with a stick of dynamite.

How do you trust Treliving's decision making ability going forward after such a massive, public, failure? Is he part of the culture problem or part of the solution? Hard to argue the solution at this point.
I suppose at least part of a response to what you’re saying rests with how you feel Tre has performed in other key areas. If you believe his FA signing failings, revolving goalie searches and coaching moves outweigh his contract negotiations and trades then this maybe final nail.

I personally feel that Tre made the hire by overvaluing his personal observations and Peters lineage. Maybe he turned a blind eye to some bad behaviour after getting some assurance they were one offs. Some fairly major errors for sure.

I am one who think overall the good outweighs the bad with Tre. I really hope he didn’t hire Peters knowing he had some pretty egregious fouls.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:49 AM   #694
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To be fair, that’s not by choice. The Flames are equally complicit in turning a blind eye, just not any more so than those organisations.
I actually think the way the Flames management and especially Brad Treliving have been very professional in their statements and the conduct of this investigation.
If any team should be taking heat for this situation it is Carolina. They were the ones who kept it quiet when it seems like their GM and their management all knew what happened.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:51 AM   #695
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How so?
Because the more stuff that comes out the more it looks like the Flames didn't perform due diligence on the hire.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:52 AM   #696
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Listen to Brind'Amour's comments. If he or others in the Carolina organization were asked about Peters's controversial behaviour, it seems the likely response was "this happened, the players and management dealt with it properly, and there have been no subsequent issues."

Again, it is difficult to see how Treliving or the Flames should be culpable for things about which they had no first hand information.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:55 AM   #697
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I actually think the way the Flames management and especially Brad Treliving have been very professional in their statements and the conduct of this investigation.
If any team should be taking heat for this situation it is Carolina. They were the ones who kept it quiet when it seems like their GM and their management all knew what happened.
In partial defence of the Hurricanes, everything about that organization above the GM was such a mess that it's hard to imagine the team was capable of doing anything about anything at that level. But Ron Francis is really coming out of this looking poorly. The one part of this where I tend to agree with Flash's running commentary is that Seattle might be wanting to re-assess their association with him.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:56 AM   #698
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Because the more stuff that comes out the more it looks like the Flames didn't perform due diligence on the hire.
If it is all just coming out now, then why should we think there was any more transparency two years ago when the Flames made their hire?
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:59 AM   #699
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To be fair, that’s not by choice. The Flames are equally complicit in turning a blind eye, just not any more so than those organisations.
I really dislike this comment.

Is there any evidence, whatsoever, that there was an incident that occurred during his time with the Flames that has not been taken seriously, or to which a blind eye was turned?

And before you say Treliving should have known, ok, sure, possibly. Given everything I've seen about our GM, he leaves no stone un-turned. I can only assume that he believed he had a strong understanding of Peters' past prior to hiring him in Calgary, especially since he would have interviewed him in connection with Hockey Canada for the World Championships.

How could he have possibly known, if the information is literally just coming to light this week for the first time, of the incidences in the past?

Such an absurd false equivalency you've proposed. The Flames are literally the first team to take something about Peters seriously, and took it seriously from the second the news broke.

What a bad take.
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:02 AM   #700
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Stop watching movies. That kind of stuff is being actively removed, and is not tolerated. Hell in 1987 when I was in and working as a basic training instructor we were um strongly encouraged not to swear.
Really? Cause when I was in basic training in Cornwallis, 1989, our head instructor came out the first day a stated that he wasn’t officially allowed to swear or berate. And the next line was “Did everyone f*****g hear that!” People were singled out and personally I was singled out and my knuckles were rapped a few times. I hold absolutely no animosity.

To me it’s what the military is. I’m sure the physical contact is out but I know the swearing and yelling isn’t. They have to enforce discipline in soldiers and basically try to weed out who can & cannot handle pressure situations. Coddling will not do it. This is one profession you cannot afford to have a “weak” link.
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