Hockey Abuse Reckoning

[troutman]

I did not sleep well last night. I think one reason is how upset I am about the disclosures of widespread abuse in the hockey community - physical, sexual and emotional abuse.

There seems to be a turning point now where victims are finally prepared to come forward, and where the community is ready to listen and make changes. I hope this leads to positive and lasting progress. Our sons and daughters should be able to play this great game in a safe, fun and supportive environment.

I don't fully understand the depth of the problem, or pretend to think I know the solutions.

This goes beyond hockey - this happens in other sports, and other areas of society. I never had an abusive coach, but I had an abusive teacher.

Let's listen to the stories, and think about how to make things better.


Maybe there needs to be a National Commission?

[troutman]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1199709733310976000

https://twitter.com/user/status/1199710798181892096

[troutman]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1199553917484445696

[codynw]

Carcillo had some stuff on his Twitter about the WHL and Hockey Canada covering up an incident to protect the Sutter family this morning.


"Every1 is asking me about the Sutters & the full story

There is so much to the story, that it needs to b covered in a poignant way, with the right attention that the stories deserve

The families & victims are in talks with large media corporations-breaking soon

#hockey #abuse"

[redforever]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://twitter.com/user/status/1199553917484445696

Powerful powerful stuff that she posted.

[troutman]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1199635146854543361

[Charsiu]

Originally Posted by troutman

I did not sleep well last night. I think one reason is how upset I am about the disclosures of widespread abuse in the hockey community - physical, sexual and emotional abuse.

There seems to be a turning point now where victims are finally prepared to come forward, and where the community is ready to listen and make changes. I hope this leads to positive and lasting progress. Our sons and daughters should be able to play this great game in a safe, fun and supportive environment.

I don't fully understand the depth of the problem, or pretend to think I know the solutions.

This goes beyond hockey - this happens in other sports, and other areas of society. I never had an abusive coach, but I had an abusive teacher.

Let's listen to the stories, and think about how to make things better.

I agree with this sentiment completely. I hope this serves as a watershed moment and would be glad if this started a holistic shift in what's proven to be a toxic culture and mentality.

It is hard to reconcile being a fan of something and to suspend a sense of seriousness when you such fundamentally flawed behaviour overlooked at the highest levels of the game.

I'm glad it's come to light, but can't help but think of the racism that occurs at the grassroot, formative levels. It's hard to overlook the racism directed towards indigenous players and families at the lower levels, the macho hazing bull#### that's ignored at best, encouraged at worst and not think about my culpability as a fan in its perpetuation.

I think it's important that it's confronted and addressed by both the fans and the institutions in hopes of changing things but I also know that the sport itself just serves as a microcosm for these issues as a whole and as such we probably won't see an end to this bull#### anytime soon.

Bums me out man.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its disturbing to me.


There's a difference between a demanding coach and a abusive coach.



While at the amateur level I haven't seen any signs of gross abuse on the teams I've coached for and I've coached football for a loooong time. I have seen things that I don't like on other sidelines, especially from the older school coaches, but I want to put a rider on that as well that I'm seeing less and less of that.


Last year I took real offense with something that I saw on the field with one of our sister teams and I addressed it in the hardest possible manner.


Its up to the coaches and even the various sports bodies though to do a way better job of teaching coaches and policing coaches.

[Psytic]

Greg Gilbert was the best systems coach he had in the AHL? Who knew.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by troutman

I did not sleep well last night. I think one reason is how upset I am about the disclosures of widespread abuse in the hockey community - physical, sexual and emotional abuse.

There seems to be a turning point now where victims are finally prepared to come forward, and where the community is ready to listen and make changes. I hope this leads to positive and lasting progress. Our sons and daughters should be able to play this great game in a safe, fun and supportive environment.

I don't fully understand the depth of the problem, or pretend to think I know the solutions.

This goes beyond hockey - this happens in other sports, and other areas of society. I never had an abusive coach, but I had an abusive teacher.

Let's listen to the stories, and think about how to make things better.


Maybe there needs to be a National Commission?

should have been a reckoning after Graham James, for one example.
better late than never, though.

I didn't think the Babcock firing would be the issue that would finally be the turning point.

[Jore]

This reckoning is long overdue, especially at the junior levels where 15 year olds leave home to live in strangers' houses, where they're not paid minimum wage despite generating profits for the league, owners, and agents, and where they're subjected to abuse from all kinds of people in power but can't speak up for themselves because they're all trying to make careers. It is not a good system, and at the moment there does not seem to be a group looking after the player's interests that has any kind of leverage.

It's encouraging to see people speaking up individually, but a lot more needs to change.

Georges Laraque tried to form a CHL players union in 2012 with very modest demands but it got torpedoed:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rticle4851890/

– On what this fight was over: "I never said that the junior players were mistreated. I never said it wasn't a good league. The two things I said was that, one, the 18th months they have [to use their education plan] is unacceptable. It should be four years. They know that every player that plays junior hockey wants to play a couple years in the ECHL or the AHL to try and make it. It's unacceptable to have 18 months because you know they're not going to take that scholarship. The second thing is, the NCAA... If they change the bylaw, then the players could go there. They won't lose their eligibility, but the [CHL] are blocking it."

– Why he did get involved: "I thought I could be part of something that could change junior hockey forever. Help kids get an education. That's noble. That's the imprint I want to leave on hockey. I played in the NHL for 13 years. I fought all those years. Now I can do something positive. And helping these kids have their own union is a noble cause."

The Ontario PC government in 2018 ruled that junior players don't deserve minimum wage:
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ws-for-workers

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Jore

This reckoning is long overdue, especially at the junior levels where 15 year olds leave home to live in strangers' houses, where they're not paid minimum wage despite generating profits for the league, owners, and agents, and where they're subjected to abuse from all kinds of people in power but can't speak up for themselves because they're all trying to make careers. It is not a good system, and at the moment there does not seem to be a group looking after the player's interests that has any kind of leverage.

It's encouraging to see people speaking up individually, but a lot more needs to change.

Georges Laraque tried to form a CHL players union in 2012 with very modest demands but it got torpedoed:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rticle4851890/


The Ontario PC government in 2018 ruled that junior players don't deserve minimum wage:
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ws-for-workers

I agree, everything about 15-16 year olds being pressured to leave their parents and school to play hockey seems ripe for abuse. I don't know of any other sports in North America where that is the case. There must be a better way.

[jlh2640]

Wow this is a significant reckoning possibly. I do tire of Carcillo though

[btimbit]

I'm glad I can say that I played high level hockey for the first 20 years of my life, and was always surrounded by fantastic people. The only hazing I ever saw was just your standard rookie stuff, carry the older guys bags from the bus kind of thing. I remember two instances where a new older player would join the team and ask how we were going to 'get' the rookies that year and both times they were shut down immediately. Very supportive coaches and billets that never would have tolerated any sort of abuse.

So it saddens me to see so many people's experiences were different. Hockey is a team game and if anyones idea of how to treat a teammate involves bullying or abuse needs to go, plain and simple.

Maybe Hockey Canada needs some sort of whistleblower players can contact if coaches aren't doing anything. But in the meantime I'm at least glad these things seem to blow up when they got social media.

I don't have any answers, I don't even understand why it happens in the first place, but I do know it needs to stop. No more "well that's the way it's always been" #### that

[Charsiu]

Originally Posted by Jore

This reckoning is long overdue, especially at the junior levels where 15 year olds leave home to live in strangers' houses, where they're not paid minimum wage despite generating profits for the league, owners, and agents, and where they're subjected to abuse from all kinds of people in power but can't speak up for themselves because they're all trying to make careers. It is not a good system, and at the moment there does not seem to be a group looking after the player's interests that has any kind of leverage.

It's encouraging to see people speaking up individually, but a lot more needs to change.

Georges Laraque tried to form a CHL players union in 2012 with very modest demands but it got torpedoed:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rticle4851890/


The Ontario PC government in 2018 ruled that junior players don't deserve minimum wage:
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ws-for-workers

Just wanted to expand on this topic by posting a link to an episode of the podcast Commons. A couple seasons ago they spent an episode exploring this very issue in the CHL.

https://www.canadalandshow.com/podca...hall-of-shame/

The link includes an audio file as well as a handful of articles referenced in the show. Worth listening to.

[Wastedyouth]

Definitely happens in all sports.

I was/am heavily involved in Taekwondo as a coach/official, but was a high level athlete at one time.

The abuse and power dynamics of that sport make some other sports look normal.

I have seen coaches and trainers literally beat athletes with sticks and wooden swords in the late 80s and early 90s and even into the mid 2000s.

I was kicked out of a well regarded coaches program because I refused to be abused, verbally or physically and threatened the coach right back. But I was also a redneck kid from a small town who didn't give two ####s about respecting people just because of past accomplishments or supposed standings in the community.

I have seen this coach (Father of one of my team mates) repeatedly hit his own daughter till she cried for not doing a drill properly.

I spoke up at that point, but no one cared about it. That is the way things were done back then. Then the occurrence that got me removed happened shortly after.

I know personally several olympic coaches who have used their influence to get into relationships with girls 20 years their junior because of their influence they carry in the community. These coaches are finally being called out (you can see some of the stories in the news from the last couple years). These were well known stories in our circles and it was appaling what relatively sane and intelligent competitors, coaches and officials let pass, because "thats just the way it is" or "thats so and so's son/daughter" or "Don't you know who that is? He's an olympic coach".

That being said, I have been around these programs for over 30 years. And I have seen athletes being scared to call out people who can affect your career, or afraid of rocking the boat because it's someone who is highly regarded and will literally with one phone call make sure you never get to fight above a provincial level again. This is a situation that is promoted by people in power because it keeps them safe.

I can understand it from athletes of all ages because when you are in it, if you are vulnerable (which, to be honest, most high level athletes are, they are usually pretty immature because they spend the majority of their formative years training and not doing much else and often don't know better from lack of life experience), you will do anything to succeed. And it often comes at the cost of your own mind and body.

Edit: I should preface this with the fact that my own dad was very high up in the sport and I carried a level of protection most athletes did not, so I was privileged to be able to tell a coach to GFY and still be able to progress in the sport. My dad loved the sport more than anyone I ever knew and taught me to respect the people who gave me respect and supported me fully whenever I spoke up, but even he was shut down when the truth would come to light. It was dark back then and I am hoping it continues to get better. But I know personally more stories that will come to light, hopefully soon that might create more transparency.

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There's a difference between a demanding coach and a abusive coach.

Yeah, this part is interesting and I don't think it's ever clear where the line is.

I remember having conversations with people about the music teacher in Whiplash and trying to navigate the differing opinions of whether he was demanding or abusive.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

Yeah, this part is interesting and I don't think it's ever clear where the line is.

I remember having conversations with people about the music teacher in Whiplash and trying to navigate the differing opinions of whether he was demanding or abusive.

I think it's pretty clear. Any professional coaching program tells you where the line is.

[Split98]

Glad this day is coming. For my whole life I have heard stories about how tough the coach is and the romanticizing of their hard-ass ways.

But there's the demanding hot-headed coach that kicks the trashcan and then there's the abusive prick that manipulates and harms individuals. I think both are going to get caught up in a few stories here, but I'm very glad that we're going to stop celebrating the hard-ass coach that will smack a player upside the head for a bad line-change.

I wish we did a few things though:

1. Carcillo can cut it out with this publicity stunt
2. We separate Akim's allegation from the coaches that went over the line (of which... Peters is also a part of)
3. Remember that this is a change, and it's starting today

On Carcillo, until he starts making allegations he's just throwing people under the bus... and seemingly trying to gain an audience while doing it. His heart might be in the right place, but his execution is gross. I'm wondering how much of these are going to be a coach/player relationship problems more than an abusive coach (as I think Maurice was preparing everyone for)

He also seems more bent on the number of stories he shares rather than focusing on the bad-actors in the NHL that need to be outed. I worry that a few player relationships are going to be added to the pile, and a few regrettable interactions blown into a full characterization. Take the coach shouting at the player from the rink to the locker room that Carcillo just shared. A terrible story, to be sure... but is there more when we learn context? Is this an abusive coach, or an intense situation gone too far? In both cases, I hope both parties agree a better course of action should be taken - but there is a level of intensity in sport that does need to be considered in some situations.

So while the reckoning has finally come, I just hope it remembers that there's a difference between bad people and people with regrettable incidents. I also hope we remember that every incident is unique.

[Manhattanboy]

Off topic but on a plane recently I watched a Canadian entry at 2016 TIFF called "Hello Destroyer" about a junior player who was coached to be a goon and then abandoned after a vicious hit injured another player.

"A young junior hockey player's life is shattered by an in-game act of violence. In an instant his life is abruptly turned upside down; torn from the fraternity of the team and the coinciding position of prominence, he is cast as a pariah and ostracized from the community. As he struggles with the repercussions of the event, desperate to find a means of reconciliation and a sense of identity, his personal journey ends up illuminating troubling systemic issues around violence."

Not a bad film.