What “save the season” trade would you like?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No I believe they said no more dead money on the cap.

That's a far cry from telling him who to spend money on.

Well in your scenario they are telling BT who he cant spend money on then...same thing really.

[dino7c]

Troy Brower just got a contract with the defending champs...Lucic is vastly overpaid but is definitely an NHLer. If the Flames buy him out this summer he will sign a UFA deal

[cannon7]

I don't think there's a clear cut "save the season" trade. So would rather Treliving (or whoever takes his job) to make moves for the long term as this team as currently constructed is unlikely to make any noise if they even do make the playoffs.

Over the summer I proposed (mostly out of frustration):

Gaudreau, Monahan for Hall (+ extension), Hischier (give or take picks, prospects)

But not even sure Gaudreau/Monahan will get that anymore. Even with the NJ connection.

Depending on health, would extend Brodie and move Hamonic and Frolik at the deadline. Even if we're in a playoff spot.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Troy Brower just got a contract with the defending champs...Lucic is vastly overpaid but is definitely an NHLer. If the Flames buy him out this summer he will sign a UFA deal

Brouwer scored almost twice as many goals in 75 games last year than Lucic has in his last 145 games.

Brouwer is also coming in at 750K on a 2 way deal vs a 5.25 million dollar NMC.

But OK.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Brouwer scored almost twice as many goals in 75 games last year than Lucic has in his last 145 games.

Brouwer is also coming in at 750K on a 2 way deal vs a 5.25 million dollar NMC.

But OK.

Goals goals goals goals...you realize that isn't the only thing that matters right? And did you even read what I said? He is vastly overpaid

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Goals goals goals goals...you realize that isn't the only thing that matters right? And did you even read what I said? He is vastly overpaid

Have they changed the rules so that the team with the best xGF% and Corsi over the course of the game wins?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Goals goals goals goals...you realize that isn't the only thing that matters right? And did you even read what I said? He is vastly overpaid

lol, it's actually pretty much the only thing that matters.

In case you missed it, the Flames are at 2.40 goals per game, 31st in the NHL.

That means they are last.

It means they are the worst at scoring goals, the most important thing, in the league.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

If that’s what ownership said then we have terrible owners.

Possibly.

You can certainly think that.

But you wouldn't have a limit of dead cap space for an employee? I know I would.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I can call baloney on anything, that’s the beauty of living in a free society where different opinions are allowed. I bring this up only as a means to explain that I’m not coming at this from a point of ignorance, but from a point of questioning the appropriateness of the approach.

I’m sure you’ve done plenty of homework on both players, my point is not that you’re cherry-picking. Let me put it to you another way.

What I believe you’re doing is akin to writing a very elegant report, in which you’ve outlined your methodology in great detail. You’ve observed something in the world that you wish to explain, and then you put it to the test using the best tools available. But then at the end of this report you disregard that basic observation altogether and create an elaborate model to explain why the sky is actually green. That’s fishing for something to fit a preconceived narrative, which in any professional community would land your very elegant report in the trash bin.

You said yourself that neither player passes the eye test. But Player A has 13 goals and has been directly responsible for at least two points in the standings for his team, even if his five on five play leaves something to be desired. Player B has 0 goals, and while he may not be as much of a problem as Player A 5 on 5, the difference does not result in anything that translates to winning a hockey game. Which is what any of us actually cares about.

Right but a simple model says he's not responsible for at least two points, because he's hurt them in other games which took that away.

Did I say Lucic doesn't pass the eye test? If I did that's not what I meant. I said many times that I didn't expect him to produce much but be a good enough defensive player (two way five on five) to not hurt the team. He's passed that for sure, and the numbers suggest that.

Neal's 50% PP shooting percentage isn't going to last. And even if it did he'd have to improve his five on five play enough to have the goals actually add value which he hasn't.

And I'm not disregarding anything. I can see he has 13 goals, not once have I ignored or tried to hide from that. But those 13 goals haven't been enough to make up for the other parts of his game.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

lol, it's actually pretty much the only thing that matters.

In case you missed it, the Flames are at 2.40 goals per game, 31st in the NHL.

That means they are last.

It means they are the worst at scoring goals, the most important thing, in the league.

Yeah that's all Lucic...nothing to do with the top players


FFS all I said was he is an NHLer, he is

Blaming the Flames scoring problems on a fourth liner is stupid...heck his board play eneded the goal less streak

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Goals goals goals goals...you realize that isn't the only thing that matters right? And did you even read what I said? He is vastly overpaid

Yup.

Unfortunately that is what it comes down to when you pay a guy over 5 million dollars a year. It matters...a lot. Not the only thing for sure...but a great big massive thing in the end.

But please do tell me what other attributes Milan Lucic provides "that matter" as an NHL hockey player.

Is it using line mates effectively? Setting up others to finish? His foot speed? Getting suspended doing the one thing he is really good at? Leadership in the room?

Sorry, but if you believe he is NHL quality any longer, then i dont know what else to say. He lost his game 2 full years ago and it simply isnt coming back.

Complete and utter detriment to this club, and again I dont blame him for that. Father time remains undefeated.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Possibly.

You can certainly think that.

But you wouldn't have a limit of dead cap space for an employee? I know I would.

No, especially if the alternative is to grossly overpay another employee, which is essentially the exact same thing as dead cap space. I run a big farm, I know what its like to have sunk costs. You just move on, you don’t continue handicapping yourself because of some kind of ego or whatever.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think this is where you and i go in completely different directions...haha.

I entirely expect a good five on five guy to contribute offensively, at least some. He doesnt. Like...nothing. Im not even blaming him, he played a really hard style for many years and it simply caught up to him. Add on the game has changed to more of a speed game the last few years and its a double whammy for his abilities.

So when I add up his offensive contributions, defensive abilities, and his cap hit....he is not, in any way, a guy that can play in the NHL any longer and most certainly does hurt the team because he taking up that spot and cap space that could be allocated to another player capable of doing way more for much less.

Agreed if you assess his contract ... for sure.

But the cap hit was here with the Neal signing, now they have an expensive guy that can play five on five in exchange for an expensive guy that can't.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

More proof fancy stats are garbage. To suggest Milan Lucic is top five in anything, for any team, other than worst contracts in the NHL, is preposterous. No one, not one other team, would take Milan Lucic on their roster. Even if we retained half his cap hit, that would still be a very hard sell.



He's not helping them win games. He's boring as hell out there because he does nothing. He's contributing to driving fans away from watching the product. He's hurting them alright. In more ways than anyone wants to admit.

Salary doesn't come into fancy stats. And for 345th time they're not that fancy. Lucic tends to have more pucks and chances go towards the other team's net than his own. That's good by the way. Nothing fancy about it.

When you give up a guy that was hurting them five on five for a guy that isn't it's a net step forward. Not that hard to get your head around honestly.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah that's all Lucic...nothing to do with the top players


FFS all I said was he is an NHLer, he is

Blaming the Flames scoring problems on a fourth liner is stupid...heck his board play eneded the goalless streak

Dude, the Flames are dead last in goals and Lucic has 0 goals.

He's not an NHLer.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

No, especially if the alternative is to grossly overpay another employee, which is essentially the exact same thing as dead cap space. I run a big farm, I know what its like to have sunk costs. You just move on, you don’t continue handicapping yourself because of some kind of ego or whatever.

I honestly don't have a problem for thinking the owners are wrong or poor to not let Treliving buy Neal out.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Troy Brower just got a contract with the defending champs...Lucic is vastly overpaid but is definitely an NHLer. If the Flames buy him out this summer he will sign a UFA deal

I don't think Lucic's game is of NHL calibre anymore at all.

[dino7c]

If goal scoring was the only thing the top scoring team would win the cup not get swept in the first round

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Karl

I don't think Lucic's game is of NHL calibre anymore at all.

Good for you, there are plenty of worse players in the league...some on this team

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If goal scoring was the only thing the top scoring team would win the cup not get swept in the first round

Did Tampa score more goals in that series or am I missing something here?