Johnny Gaudreau: Trade or Keep?

[Dreamingof89again]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I worry a lot about trading a guy like Gaudreau who could very well just not be happy under Peters. I worry about A) getting a non-stellar return and then B) the team realizing that Peters is in fact not a very good coach and Peters is out not long after and the end result is we are down a very talented winger and no further ahead in the standings.

Despite how bad Gaudreau has been Backlund still has less goals and way less points and continues to demonstrate clearly he is not a top 6 NHL talent. The goal should be a top 6 centre. Trading Gaudreau would be a massive step backwards for this team that is absolutely starved for offense.

To trade him now seems too similar to the Marc Savard vs Greg Gilbert power struggle. The Flames let Gilbert win that and then fired him shortly after. Outcome was Savard was an all-star after the trade and Gilbert never heard from in the NHL since

[Psytic]

Depends what we get back. Doesn't mean its an automatic loss. The Pred's trade star players for a better fit all the time Weber, Seth Jones, Etc and they do pretty good. Avs not missing Duchene or O'Reily either. Can be a win or a win win even its about fit. Is Tre as good as Poile or Sakic? I'm not so sure but hopefully.

Edit: To be clear I wouldn't trade players to keep Peters. I'm not a Peters fan at all (he can go to for all I care) but I could see a shake up involving a major piece just to re tool the team as its 3 coaches now tuned out so there is clearly an attitude problem in the room as well. Trading a star doesnt mean we automatically lose if our Gm is a "Wizard"

[Lanny_McDonald]

I really hope this team doesn’t pull another Greg Gilbert and move a star player out to save a really ####ty coach that they are destined to dump. The Flames always seem to miss on the obvious choices for good experienced coaches, and instead try to go off the reservation and prove they are the smartest guys in the room. Treliving has done this way too much when there were good experienced coaches available. Maybe time for a guy with pedigree?

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Saqe

The problem with trading Gaudreau is that you need to get a #1 center back and they aren't available. So you would likely end up with someone like Zibanejad/Johnsson/Trocheck type plus some additional minor pieces.



No team will trade their #1 center of equal quality for Gaudreau (unless it's a ROR type of situation which is rare).

Would ppl be interested in Gaudreau for Zibanejad and Fast? Zibanejad is a strong possession driving centre who had 74 points last season. That was by far his best point-producing season. But he plays on New York’s number 1 line, gets like 45% offensive zone starts, and is a +7.4% CFRel%. Additionally, he has 11 points in 9 games so far this season. And he’s RH. Jesper Fast also shoots R and plays the right side.

[Nadal Fan]

Iginla led the league in goals and points in 01/02 with 96 points and the next year he got 30 less points and finished the year with 67 points. I'm certainly glad we didn't trade him at that point because we all know what happened the very next year. Players go through ups and downs in their careers. Look at a player like Joe Sakic one of the all time greats, went from 118 points in 2001 to 79 points in 2002.
Unless your talking about Gretzky or Lemieux players don't put up 100 point seasons every year. It's possible that Gaudreau puts up 65 points this year but next year puts up 92.
Unless the return the Flames would get from trading Gaudreau is a superstar of equal value we should keep Gaudreau.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by New Era

I really hope this team doesn’t pull another Greg Gilbert and move a star player out to save a really ####ty coach that they are destined to dump. The Flames always seem to miss on the obvious choices for good experienced coaches, and instead try to go off the reservation and prove they are the smartest guys in the room. Treliving has done this way too much when there were good experienced coaches available. Maybe time for a guy with pedigree?

When do we hold the players accountable?

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

When do we hold the players accountable?

I agree with you, but man, if Savard stayed the Flames would have been a pretty decent team. If the whole team has quit on Peters you have to let the guy go, now if it is a couple of individuals well trade them.

[SuperMatt18]

Gaudreau does need to really look in the mirror at this point and question what's going on.

Over the last 10 games at 5v5 he's actually cost the team games IMO. This team is playing pretty much even hockey at 5v5 with him off the ice but is just getting dummied when he's on the ice.

Gaudreau + Monahan
TOI: 122
CF%: 51.3%
HDCF%: 37.1%
xGF%: 43.5%
GF%: 28.6% (GF: 4 , GA:10)

Gaudreau w/o Monahan
TOI: 30
CF%: 48.2%
HDCF%: 25.0%
xGF%: 34.9%
GF%: 33.3% (GF: 1, GA: 2)

Monahan w/o Gaudreau
TOI: 20
CF%: 61.9%
HDCF%: 55.6%
xGF%: 57.7%
GF%: 33.3 (GF: 1, GA: 2)

Neither of them on the ice
TOI: 300
CF%: 54.7%
HDCF%: 53.9%
xGF%: 54.2%
GF%: 46.7 (GF: 7, GA:8)

It's at the point where he does almost need to see limited ice time until he finds his game because he's been that bad.

Over these last 10 games his team ranks among forwards are:

CF: 50.7% (2nd last behind Lindholm)
HDCF%: 35.9 (Last)
xGF%: 42.1 (Last)
5v5 Goal Differential: -7 (Last)

He's pretty much a liability right now. I think they put him with Backlund and Lindholm last night because those are our two most responsible defensive forwards. And it still didn't matter as they all ended up a -2.

Hopefully everything with him is okay away from the rink but something just doesn't seem right with him this year to me.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Despite how bad Gaudreau has been Backlund still has less goals and way less points.....

That is hardly a surprise, when Backlund generally plays against the other teams best players and is expected to shut hem down. Plus he gets way less PP time than Johnny.

I can't imagine many scenario's where Johnny would outscore Backlund, and none are good.

[DiracSpike]

It's a no-brainer to swap out coaches over your much harder to get star players, but man at a certain number you have to start wondering about the players. This is now the third coach that it looks like is being tuned out, and all three only got one respectable year out of this team. Treliving can go back to bringing in a "players coach" but how long until they tune that guy out too? The players have to be responsible at a certain point.

IMO a Gaudreau trade is inevitable and probably sooner than most people think. He's not re-singing here so the Flames have two and a half years to get value for him before he's gone for nothing. Even if they bring a new coach after this year the core's track record has shown that they'll only listen to that guy for a year before ignoring him too so there's a large chance we only get one more good team year before he leaves. A trade can be a good thing as long as it's done right, as others have pointed out other teams flip superstar players all the time. We're just gun-shy as Flames fans about this and justifiably so, every time we trade a superstar we get absolutely hosed in the return.

[8sPOT]

I love Johnny Hockey. He's a great player, and one of the most exciting to watch in the league. But I also think a change could benefit both the team and him. Not an easy trade to make but if its something that helps the team then you've gotta do it.

No idea what that trade looks like though and maybe there aren't any teams willing to offer what it might take.

Something has to change though. This team should be way better, maybe a Calgary/Toronto trade.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Teroy

The play dieing on Gaudreau's stick has nothing to do with the coach. Gaudreau has a history of whining and I wouldn't be surprised if this carries over to the dressing room. I wouldn't be surprised if his nose is out of join with the latest salaries. That said, some of you might be satisfied with a one dimensional player, but I'm not. I'd gladly trade him for a player that works his butt off all the time. As far as I'm concerned, he's as much a detriment to the team as he is a benefit.

He is not upset about somebody else's salary. Envious perhaps, but not unhappy. Salary is not what is bugging Gaudreau, but something is. It could be something as simple as he is in a slump and he's so hard on himself that he just can't feel right on the ice. Maybe Peters took his skittles away. Maybe he doesn't get along with one or more of his teammates. It could be a myriad of reasons but it has nothing to do with salary.

An NHL player has said that they're all happy for what others are making and if somebody is upset with what others are making then that player doesn't stick around for very long with any team he's on.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I agree with you, but man, if Savard stayed the Flames would have been a pretty decent team. If the whole team has quit on Peters you have to let the guy go, now if it is a couple of individuals well trade them.

Yeah, every team goes through rough patches. I just don't know how long you wait. Tarasenko was the guy to be dealt last year then the Blues turned it around.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Look at a player like Joe Sakic one of the all time greats, went from 118 points in 2001 to 79 points in 2002.

That was a weird year for points (2002), as nobody hit 100 points.

Another way to look at it - you could also say that Sakic went from #2 in league scoring in 2001, to #5 in League scoring in 2002. That doesn't seem to be a big drop off.

Right now, Johnny was at #8 in league scoring last year, and is currently sitting at #52 in league scoring this year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

That was a weird year for points (2002), as nobody hit 100 points.

Another way to look at it - you could also say that Sakic went from #2 in league scoring in 2001, to #5 in League scoring in 2002. That doesn't seem to be a big drop off.

Right now, Johnny was at #8 in league scoring last year, and is currently sitting at #52 in league scoring this year.

That's a great point actually. Tons of players are scoring more than ever.

Sakic was also not a one dimensional player, and I don't know if he had additional defensive responsibilities which led to a decrease in scoring.

[DeluxeMoustache]

They need to bring in somebody Johnny respects. When Jagr said Johnny could lead the league in scoring, Johnny responded to it.

Bring back Jagr.

[Nadal Fan]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

That was a weird year for points (2002), as nobody hit 100 points.

Another way to look at it - you could also say that Sakic went from #2 in league scoring in 2001, to #5 in League scoring in 2002. That doesn't seem to be a big drop off.

Right now, Johnny was at #8 in league scoring last year, and is currently sitting at #52 in league scoring this year.

Whoah Craig Conroy was 12th in the league in points that year, I hope he gave Iggy a great Christmas present.

That's a very fair point and something I never considered. To me I personally would prefer the team figure out what is going on with Gaudreau and help him get back to his scoring ways than trading him for someone.

[FlameX]

This shouldn't even be a discussion or a thread. Johnny is just having an off season. He literally had a 99 point season last year and everyone wants to trade him? Calm down people it's just a bad season.

Think of this as another 2015-16 season, so far

As for Monahan keep him as well. The only players that should be on the trading block are Janko, Hamonic (Unless Peters makes him a forward lmao) Frolik, Brodie and Benny.

Leave the top line alone. I do have to say one important thing though, Lucic is our best player as of right now

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That is hardly a surprise, when Backlund generally plays against the other teams best players and is expected to shut hem down. Plus he gets way less PP time than Johnny.

I can't imagine many scenario's where Johnny would outscore Backlund, and none are good.

Sorry. I never meant that Backlund should be scoring more than Gaudreau. Just that Backlund and our centre depth to me is more of a problem for the Flames than Johnny.

[Psytic]

Too much fortnite