Don Cherry Fired by SN - Poll Added

[Strange Brew]

I suspect part of the problem is that Cherry has a hard time taking advice.

[FanIn80]

I think "coachability" has to come into the equation.

Is this someone who said something stupid, but shows a willingness to learn from it and alter the behavior moving forward? Or is this someone who doesn't get what the big deal is, thinks everyone else is the problem and is probably going to say the exact same thing again in a few weeks?

I've watched Don Cherry since the beginning of Coach's Corner, and he has always (even in his younger days) been of the second type. Cherry doesn't make mistakes. Cherry says what he means and means what he says. Always has, and always will.

This is a different world. Society has changed. Does it suck that evolution means some people get left behind? It sure does. I'm sure the dinosaurs would all love to still be roaming the earth, but there's no way we'd be here if they were.

Species evolve. Societies evolve. Unevolved figureheads cannot survive at the forefront. That's just not how evolution works.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Split98

This fits with how I've viewed the extremes foaming at the mouth that he's been removed over this

You want to see more of this guy's crazy? Read the guy's fb profile. It's crazy on steroids.

[jayswin]

I would really, really like to know how so many people in Canada could have possibly missed the "that come here" part of his comment? It's baffling.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Not everyone sees things in such polar extremes.

For example, Nazem Kadri doesn’t seem to note the vicious intent and dog whistles that some people are steadfastly insisting simply can’t be missed .

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1878368

"(Cherry) has been there for so long, it's going to be hard to see (Hockey Night in Canada) without him. That's definitely unfortunate," Kadri told the Denver Post's Kyle Fredrickson. "I know Grapes and I don't think it came across like everyone is making it sound. I think with what he said, it was maybe just said incorrectly. People maybe took it out of context a little bit. I know Grapes is a great person and am sad to see him go."

...


"The sport brings everyone together with the team values and the work ethic," Kadri said. "It taught me a lot about those two things. Now, I go watch my little cousins play in their youth development programs and there are a variety of ethnicities on their team. When I was growing up, I was kind of the only one. It’s good to see now."

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Not everyone sees things in such polar extremes.

For example, Nazem Kadri doesn’t seem to note the vicious intent and dog whistles that some people are steadfastly insisting simply can’t be missed .

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1878368

I can't quote your quote, but this part stuck out for me:

I know Grapes and I don't think it came across like everyone is making it sound.

I know 'Grapes' (from his onscreen persona only, of course) and it came across exactly like it sounded. It's not like this anything new or different from him. Folks just don't accept/tolerate it anymore.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Here is something from the day before he went on air, where he said essentially the same thing, without the two word combos that drove the outrage.

https://canoe.com/news/local-news/wa...e-b55f53a9d29c

[dammage79]

Is this the absolute height of grammar nazi-ism? I'm honestly curious.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I would really, really like to know how so many people in Canada could have possibly missed the "that come here" part of his comment? It's baffling.

To take a guess, I'd imagine that not everyone wants to dissect and analyze every word of a 85 year old man who's said similar things in the past.

[Strange Brew]

People don’t seem to understand what dog whistle means. It’s not a dog whistle when everyone with ears can hear it.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Saqe

To take a guess, I'd imagine that not everyone wants to dissect and analyze every word of a 85 year old man who's said similar things in the past.

It was only 6 days ago. And he didn’t say that many words.

“You people that come here … whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you could pay a couple of bucks for a poppy”.

Mods: Could we somehow put the “you people that come here” in the thread title so people stop thinking all he just said was, “you people”.

[GullFoss]

Most of the visible minorities i talked to were not offended. None of the visible minorities i talked to who watched don cherry growing up were offended. And I'm colored, so I know a lot of visible minorities. Do you know why we weren't offended? Because we took what he said the way he meant it, not the way he said it. Most of the visible minorities offended either dont watch hockey night in Canada, didn't watch don cherry growing up or are liberals living in outrage culture land.

The thing about being a visible minority is that you learn very quickly that what people say and how they say it is very different from who they are and what they mean. You learn to pick up on non-verbal body languages and see the nuances in their actions. I rarely judge how racist someone is by what they say or how they say it because how people talk and how they say things are often a byproduct of the era and location of when and where they've lived. A 24 year-old racist in 2019 is going to sound much less racist than an 85-year old non-racist.

I continue to believe that it's hard to come to the conclusion that don cherry is a racist when you put the rant into the context of:

1) previous don cherry rants
2) previous 85 y/o don cherry rants
3) all the charity work and community service don cherry does and has done in the past
4) the fact that no visible minorities in the NHL have ever said anything bad about him
5) the fact that there hasn't been a single instance of anyone colored every saying "I personally interacted with Don cherry and he's a bigot"

Don Cherry is a good guy (and a blow hard, loud mouth). He's not politically correct. He mispeaks. It happens. He didn't mean it the way it came out. It came out the way it did, he and he should have been able to go on the air and clarify his words.

Instead, a guy who has DECADES of showing us the quality of man he is through his action...who should have been able to go out on his own terms...was judged on his words that were taken out of the wider context and treated like garbage because of outrage culture.

It's a shame.

[Manhattanboy]

Gullfoss that’s a brilliant post.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Then why didn’t he apologize if it didn’t come out the way it was meant to? (Now I don’t think what he said was racist as immigrant isn’t a race, It is more xenophobic then anything else). My question though is if it does offend you why does that automatically mean you are a liberal? I am white and not an immigrant and really not offended, but think people should be smart enough by now to know the consequences of what you say, even if you don’t agree.you can’t control what offends people, hell look at all the ones that are offended and get outraged because others get offended over different things then they do.Personally yes everyone should wear poppies, but they have the freedom not to and thus should be afforded that freedom without being shamed whether you approve or disapprove. Maybe the old adage of mind your own beeswax should be applied more often.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Most of the visible minorities i talked to were not offended. None of the visible minorities i talked to who watched don cherry growing up were offended. And I'm colored, so I know a lot of visible minorities. Do you know why we weren't offended? Because we took what he said the way he meant it, not the way he said it. Most of the visible minorities offended either dont watch hockey night in Canada, didn't watch don cherry growing up or are liberals living in outrage culture land.

The thing about being a visible minority is that you learn very quickly that what people say and how they say it is very different from who they are and what they mean. You learn to pick up on non-verbal body languages and see the nuances in their actions. I rarely judge how racist someone is by what they say or how they say it because how people talk and how they say things are often a byproduct of the era and location of when and where they've lived. A 24 year-old racist in 2019 is going to sound much less racist than an 85-year old non-racist.

I continue to believe that it's hard to come to the conclusion that don cherry is a racist when you put the rant into the context of:

1) previous don cherry rants
2) previous 85 y/o don cherry rants
3) all the charity work and community service don cherry does and has done in the past
4) the fact that no visible minorities in the NHL have ever said anything bad about him
5) the fact that there hasn't been a single instance of anyone colored every saying "I personally interacted with Don cherry and he's a bigot"

Don Cherry is a good guy (and a blow hard, loud mouth). He's not politically correct. He mispeaks. It happens. He didn't mean it the way it came out. It came out the way it did, he and he should have been able to go on the air and clarify his words.

Instead, a guy who has DECADES of showing us the quality of man he is through his action...who should have been able to go out on his own terms...was judged on his words that were taken out of the wider context and treated like garbage because of outrage culture.

It's a shame.

Wow, well done. That expresses my point of view.

[icecube]

Nothing scratches the right wing white man's itch quite like a visible minority letting a bigot off the hook for bigotry. There's gonna be a whooooole lotta thanks coming on gull foss' post methinks.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by icecube

Nothing scratches the right wing white man's itch quite like a visible minority letting a bigot off the hook for bigotry. There's gonna be a whooooole lotta thanks coming on gull foss' post methinks.

Sigh

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by icecube

Nothing scratches the right wing white man's itch quite like a visible minority letting a bigot off the hook for bigotry. There's gonna be a whooooole lotta thanks coming on gull foss' post methinks.

So what does that tell you?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I continue to believe that it's hard to come to the conclusion that don cherry is a racist when you put the rant into the context of:

1) previous don cherry rants
2) previous 85 y/o don cherry rants
3) all the charity work and community service don cherry does and has done in the past


Don Cherry is a good guy (and a blow hard, loud mouth). He's not politically correct. He mispeaks. It happens. He didn't mean it the way it came out. It came out the way it did, he and he should have been able to go on the air and clarify his words.

I'll give you your last 2 points, but the first 3 don't really prove anything. The defence that it's ok Cherry says this now because he's said all this kind of stuff before, and he's 85, doesn't make it alright. Times change, and if people Cherry don't, this is the kind of consequences they face. Happens in tv and comedy all the time. Stuff that was acceptable 10 or 20 or 30 years ago just isn't anymore.


As for his charity work, most people aren't "good" or "bad." They have good parts and bad parts. It's possible to give sincerely to charities while still have bigoted or racist thoughts about other groups. It's possible to help an old lady across the street and then sell drugs.



Just because Cherry does some good things doesn't mean he can't also do or think some bad things.


If he said it wrongly or misspoke, than he should have apologized on air. But he refused to. It's possible to apologize for misspeaking or for saying something the wrong way when you meant something else, if that's what happened.


It was his choice not to.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Don Cherry is a good guy (and a blow hard, loud mouth). He's not politically correct. He mispeaks. It happens. He didn't mean it the way it came out. It came out the way it did, he and he should have been able to go on the air and clarify his words.

He didn’t mean it the way it came out? Or, he didn’t mean for it to come out that way?

There is an important difference here, and given Cherry’s past remarks and frequent xenophobic tirades, I imagine it was more likely the latter. He slipped, and said something poorly. He probably said it because in the heat of the moment he allowed his emotions to get the better of him.

But he was also given the chance to correct himself, to apologize, and when this controversy first broke his first response was that he meant every word, and he would not apologize for it. If he was being misunderstood or taken out of context, then why did he not take the first opportunity to correct the record? Was he misunderstood by his poor choice of words? Or did he mistakenly speak his mind?

It is not a disgrace that Cherry was fired. He is a public figure with a national platform, and a history of bigoted rhetoric. He refused to change, and suffered the consequences.

I am sure that one day he will get the recognition he deserves for his contributions to hockey and to Canada. But he lost the chance to go out on his own terms when he intransigently refused to acknowledge his error last weekend.


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