Oil prices drop to under $50/barrel

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Holy crap are your posts daft RMS.

Do your homework then talk to me. Hydro like geothermal?

Wow. Just.... wow.

I'm curious as tho exactly where you got the idea that old wells can be converted for geothermal purposes. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you aren't a geologist, and haven't actually dealt with oil/gas wells in Alberta. Becasue if you had you'd know a few things that make the geothermal idea sound kind of contrived.

1) Most wells in Alberta are quite shallow and do not get to depths where the temperature is very high, and this would not really be suitable for geothermal purposes.

2) Alberta is not volcanically active. Something that places like say Iceland, where geothermal is power is already in wide use, most cretainly are.

So where exactly did you get this idea?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm curious as tho exactly where you got the idea that old wells can be converted for geothermal purposes. ?

Why, dearest Bring Back Shantz, she's already told you where she got that idea, here in her earlier post:

I've done my homework. I spent the past four months creating the Canadian global environmental assesment report under UN mandate 21. - RedMileStyle

Lord love a duck!!!

Cowperson

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Why, dearest Bring Back Shantz, she's already told you where she got that idea, here in her earlier post:



Lord love a duck!!!

Cowperson

I'm confused cow, it was Shawnski who brought up Geothermal, an idea which to me seems somewhat far fetched. That's why I'm intereseted in where he got the idea.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm curious as tho exactly where you got the idea that old wells can be converted for geothermal purposes. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you aren't a geologist, and haven't actually dealt with oil/gas wells in Alberta. Becasue if you had you'd know a few things that make the geothermal idea sound kind of contrived.

1) Most wells in Alberta are quite shallow and do not get to depths where the temperature is very high, and this would not really be suitable for geothermal purposes.

2) Alberta is not volcanically active. Something that places like say Iceland, where geothermal is power is already in wide use, most cretainly are.

So where exactly did you get this idea?

well if this is the case then here in Lethbridge there are quite a few people that have had the wool pulled over their eyes. We actually deal with a company that does about 10 houses a year with geothermal

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm confused cow, it was Shawnski who brought up Geothermal, an idea which to me seems somewhat far fetched. That's why I'm intereseted in where he got the idea.

You mean I can't put my hands around her throat?

Cowperson

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by return to the red

well if this is the case then here in Lethbridge there are quite a few people that have had the wool pulled over their eyes. We actually deal with a company that does about 10 houses a year with geothermal

From oil wells? Or is it a heat pump system from their backyard?
And for that matter, is it for power generation, or is it simply heating houses?

I'm guessing in both cases it's the latter, and yes it works well for heating homes but for for power generation I doubt its feasible.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You mean I can't put my hands around her throat?

Cowperson

Well you probably could if you wanted to, but you better clear it with the wife first.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Well you probably could if you wanted to, but you better clear it with the wife first.

I keep thinking of RedMileStyle, who described herself as not very likeable in real life in the Venezuela thread, as slatternly "Joy" from "My Name Is Earl . . . . . ."

I apologize for my earlier flummox and suppose I should attack her for something she actually DID say . . . like this:

The US just told Alberta to up their oil production five-fold.

That's factually not true. It was Canadians who set the five-fold increase target in 2004 in the Oilsands Technology Roadmap:

http://www.acr-alberta.com/Projects/...gy_Roadmap.htm

Alberta could pretty much dictate to the oil companies what they want them to do. How much they want them to drill, where, when, they could even tell them that they have to start building an infrastructure for green energies if they wanted to.

To a point.

The more roadblocks that are erected, the more governmental control that is exerted, the more likely it becomes that investment dollars begin to disappear, that projects are stalled or put on hold and, eventually, the more likely it becomes that shortages in the product in question might develop.

The textbook case in that would be American energy price controls in the 1970's and 1980's.

At the moment, some might say that lesser activity might actually be a good thing given the over-heated frenzy we're seeing in Fort McMurray . . . . . but the depth of your comment and your apparent wide-eyed agreement with nationalization in Venezuela would seem to indicate a large amount of interference that would probably stall things altogether, a disaster one can see coming a Red Mile away.

The relationship between governments and business is symbiotic . . . . each requires the other. The weight on government is finding that point where it doesn't stifle investment and initiative.

Cowperson

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I read about this on another website, but apparently after two or three quarters of oil under $60 the Alberta economy would be severely threatened. Which leads to ideas that perhaps OPEC is purposely doing this to kill the boom (in Alberta and other places in the world).

So you are saying that OPEC is bringing down the price of Oil so that it kills off oil projects in non-OPEC countries? So the fact that this year there were no major hurricanes, a warmer winter so far, increased production and reduced demand in the United States, isn’t the reason why Oil isn’t over $70 anymore. Rather it’s because OPEC is actually driving down the price, you know, with all of their recent production cuts. And here I thought they were doing that to try and keep the price of oil up.

[Tron_fdc]

I'd be kinda interested to see how much industry in Alberta has no direct relation to oil and gas. I know my industry isn't directly related, but we're for sure seeing indirect spinoffs from it.

For example: Is the housing market seen as unrelated? Because there are quite a few arguments one could make to the contrary.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm curious as tho exactly where you got the idea that old wells can be converted for geothermal purposes. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you aren't a geologist, and haven't actually dealt with oil/gas wells in Alberta. Becasue if you had you'd know a few things that make the geothermal idea sound kind of contrived.

1) Most wells in Alberta are quite shallow and do not get to depths where the temperature is very high, and this would not really be suitable for geothermal purposes.

2) Alberta is not volcanically active. Something that places like say Iceland, where geothermal is power is already in wide use, most cretainly are.

So where exactly did you get this idea?

Actually it has been around for a while. Here is a link to one interesting article on it.

Edit, here is an MIT story on geothermal from yesterday.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

. If anything I would like you to explain this point the most. I am not sure why Canadians/North Americans/Westerners allow OPEC to dictate to us what our oil is worth, but if you're happy with the amount of power foreign governments have over our markets, yay.

It isn't a matter of allowing OPEC to determine what our oil is worth, it's a matter of our customers dictating what they will pay for it. Well, guess what, our number one customer is the US, and their number one supplier is OPEC countries.

It works both ways, when Opec decides to cut production and supplies are in demand, then Canadians benefit as the oil here can be sold at a higher rate. As Opec increases production, the demand is lessened and we can no longer charge such a high prices because the US isn't willing to pay it because they can get it cheaper elsewhere. The fact of the matter is we aren't big enough to dictate prices on a world wide scale, and OPEC is.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Actually it has been around for a while. Here is a link to one interesting article on it.

Interesting, I'd like to see more before I actually agree that this is a feasible option. Seems like it might be a little pie in the sky but I'd agree that there probably is some potential, though not on a province wide scale.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

It isn't a matter of allowing OPEC to determine what our oil is worth, it's a matter of our customers dictating what they will pay for it. Well, guess what, our number one customer is the US, and their number one supplier is OPEC countries.

It works both ways, when Opec decides to cut production and supplies are in demand, then Canadians benefit as the oil here can be sold at a higher rate. As Opec increases production, the demand is lessened and we can no longer charge such a high prices because the US isn't willing to pay it because they can get it cheaper elsewhere. The fact of the matter is we aren't big enough to dictate prices on a world wide scale, and OPEC is.

At various points, including the one we are now at, its dubious whether or not OPEC is actually setting a price or much in control of anything . . . . . no one believes the individual members will cut production as they say they will, so the ability to use moral suasion to move prices diminishes . . . . hence the current weakness.

There are also large suppliers outside the OPEC umbrella who do what they want, including Canada which is rapidly ramping up production, and Russia.

The one thing OPEC learned from the 1973 oil embargo is that it can certainly kill oil-dependent economies for political gain but, in doing so, it generally will also kill itself as those economies it depends upon wither away.

Hence OPEC's multi-decade apparent desire to modulate prices somewhere in an area that doesn't offer much encouragement for the economics of alternative technologies while keeping oil dependent economies sucking happily away.

Oil remains cheaper on an inflation-adjusted basis today than it was in the 1970's and 1980's.

Cowperson

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

At various points, including the one we are now at, its dubious whether or not OPEC is actually setting a price or much in control of anything . . . . . no one believes the individual members will cut production as they say they will, so the ability to use moral suasion to move prices diminishes . . . . hence the current weakness.

There are also large suppliers outside the OPEC umbrella who do what they want, including Canada which is rapidly ramping up production, and Russia.

The one thing OPEC learned from the 1973 oil embargo is that it can certainly kill oil-dependent economies for political gain but, in doing so, it generally will also kill itself as those economies it depends upon wither away.

Hence OPEC's multi-decade apparent desire to modulate prices somewhere in an area that doesn't offer much encouragement for the economics of alternative technologies while keeping oil dependent economies sucking happily away.

Oil remains cheaper on an inflation-adjusted basis today than it was in the 1970's and 1980's.

Cowperson

I 100% agree with everything you said, and my point was more that while canada may be a rather substantial producer, compared with total world production such as OPEC, Canada does not have enought sway to actually impact world oil prices.

The market for oil is set by what the consumers are willing to pay, and it is influenced by a number of things including, beyond most reason, unkept promises by OPEC to increase or decrease production. In a speculative market, the appearance of a change is sometimes just as signifigant as an actual change, and I think OPEC has done a lovely job of impacting oil prices without actually doing much.

That all being said, my main point remains that even though canada is the larges exporter of oil to the US, we are still a much smaller exporter compared to the overall oil imports (including opec wich I think is somehwere around 3-4 times lareger of an exporter to the US), so like it or not we are subject to the prices being impacted by the other larger suppliers (orginizations that is, not countries) to the US.

[Rathji]

Now this isn't toally related to the original topic but since alternative sources were brought up I thought I would toss this out there:

I had a dicussion with my brother's farther in law who is a town counciller in a southern alberta town. He was saying how Enmax(or the local equiv) has a program where you can pay a certian amount ($400, I think?) and get a single windmill installed on your property that you would draw power from before you drew it from the grid. They are currently working on making it so it would be possible to 'sell' the power back into the grid if you over-generated. According to what he said, in Calgary you can only have 1 windmill so it is highly unlikely that you could generate more than you used, but in rural Alberta you could set up 10-20 of them and make yourself money. There are alot of hurdles before this could come into play, since wind power is an intermitent source of power and can only contribute a certian amount (like 10-20%) to the grid without huge battery-like things.

Anyone know about this, or have a link to someplace where one might get some info.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You mean I can't put my hands around her throat?

Cowperson

Cowperson, you are the most disrespectful poster on this forum.

Don't quote me saying things I never said, don't call me Joy from My Name is Earl and start contributing to the debate rather than making it a petty name-calling match.

I don't know who you're sleeping with to get that red square, but I got this blue square for telling you to "look out behind you, it's the NEP", so hoping for a second blue square here: go **** yourself.

I have class... I'll be back.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fotze

And what is with all this oil talk, gas is almost as important (sans oilsands).

Exactly.....almost 70% of Alberta's resource revenue comes from natural gas.....and we have a LOT of it.

[Lurch]

Exactly.....almost 70% of Alberta's resource revenue comes from natural gas.....and we have a LOT of it.

Do we really? Peak gas production for Alberta is already in the past (2001). If coal bed methane gets off the ground in a big way we may be able to stem declines to an extent, but regardless gas will be a declining portion of government revenues over time (flat or declining production, hopefully growing provincial economy).

[Cowperson]

[quote=Red Mile Style;727299] Cowperson, you are the most disrespectful poster on this forum.

Thanks.

Don't quote me saying things I never said,

You'll note I apologized before you even showed up . . . . apparently exhibiting my lack of class.

don't call me Joy from My Name is Earl and start contributing to the debate rather than making it a petty name-calling match.

Joy is pretty hot . . . . but not very likeable. Sounds like that fit your self-description the other day.

I don't know who you're sleeping with to get that red square, but I got this blue square for telling you to "look out behind you, it's the NEP", so hoping for a second blue square here: go **** yourself.

I can assure you I have no influence over or say in blue and red square rankings and I can add that I took no interest - none - in how you might have been ranked before or after your comments in the Venezuela thread. . . . . . . . . although if someone is actually available for sex on that subject they can put their hand up. I think they're all guys though so I might have to pass.

I have class... I'll be back.

Okey dokey. Hell hath no fury . . . . like Joy. Or Karl Marx.

Cowperson