Don Cherry Fired by SN - Poll Added

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

We agree, he chose some wrong words.

I think it also skirts the issue to ignore the intent of his actual point.

He was taking issue with people who don’t value the contribution of veterans

Maybe it does, but I am not convinced. And again, Cherry's intention in this instance is pretty irrelevant. The fact that he said what he did could also indicate a deep-seeded prejudice that he did not intend to reveal, but did so accidentally. That doesn't in any way excuse him.

Would he take issue with immigrants that don’t value veterans? Probably
Would he also take issue with Canadians that don’t value veterans? I don’t doubt it

But then you also have to manufacture an apologetic for explaining away what he actually said.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

We agree, he chose some wrong words.

I think it also skirts the issue to ignore the intent of his actual point.

He was taking issue with people who don’t value the contribution of veterans

Would he take issue with immigrants that don’t value veterans? Probably
Would he also take issue with Canadians that don’t value veterans? I don’t doubt it

Sure, but what you’re talking about is the entire difference between a perfectly reasonable statement and an unreasonable one.

If I say “people who come to our country need to learn how to drive, they’re bad drivers, I see them all the time being bad drivers, they need to learn how to drive” then that’s an unreasonable statement. I might very well take issue with non-immigrant Canadians who are bad drivers, but I didn’t say that. I could have, but I didn’t.

You can assume his intent. You can even work real hard to justify his intent and dismiss the issue, as you’re doing. But that doesn’t remove the issue from existing. And before you say “I’m not dismissing the issue, I admitted he said wrong words,” your entire focus is “it’s not technically racism, that’s not his intent” etc.

It’s an issue. Delivery matters. What people say matters because often times that’s the only way to express your intent. And if what he said didn’t match his intent, that’s on him to clarify and apologise. It’s completely fair to ask him to do that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Its up to him to be clear about the actual point he's making. From the words he directly spoke, he was singling out immigrants.
He's the one with a platform, he has every opportunity to clarify what he meant if he indeed meant something else.

Not sure why you feel the need to do it for him.

You are not sure why people should discuss this?

How about this?

He thinks Canada is the greatest nation
He believes Canadians owe a debt of gratitude to veterans
He believes that people who choose to be part of Canada should support veterans
(and yes that includes immigrants)
Buying a poppy is an easy way to do that.

These statements are all on brand for him.

His family immigrated, assimilated, fought for the country. He has always been pro Canada and pro veterans

People are spending so much time inferring and interpreting, getting outraged about the results of their own inference

People could spend time as well to consider his intent and not clumsy execution

He did not spell out to whom he took exception. Based on his words, he did not spell out taking exception to all immigrants in general, but he did appear to take exception to people that he perceives don’t support veterans

[GirlySports]

I think "you people" and "come here" were pretty clear.

[Manhattanboy]

Agree with DM. Particularly in today's cancel culture where the immediate result is job loss and exile to oblivion.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You are not sure why people should discuss this?

How about this?

He thinks Canada is the greatest nation
He believes Canadians owe a debt of gratitude to veterans
He believes that people who choose to be part of Canada should support veterans
(and yes that includes immigrants)
Buying a poppy is an easy way to do that.

These statements are all on brand for him.

His family immigrated, assimilated, fought for the country. He has always been pro Canada and pro veterans

People are spending so much time inferring and interpreting, getting outraged about the results of their own inference

People could spend time as well to consider his intent and not clumsy execution

He did not spell out to whom he took exception. Based on his words, he did not spell out taking exception to all immigrants in general, but he did appear to take exception to people that he perceives don’t support veterans

He used immigration as THE distinguishing feature of his criticism. All the rest of this is just apologetic window dressing for a man with a long history of public prejudice.

God. I am getting exhausted just by watching all the hand-waving you are doing in this thread.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

He did not spell out to whom he took exception. Based on his words, he did not spell out taking exception to all immigrants in general, but he did appear to take exception to people that he perceives don’t support veterans

He took exception to some immigrants not wearing poppies. He left out anything about non-immigrants not wearing them. Why would that be?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You are not sure why people should discuss this?

How about this?

He thinks Canada is the greatest nation
He believes Canadians owe a debt of gratitude to veterans
He believes that people who choose to be part of Canada should support veterans
(and yes that includes immigrants)
Buying a poppy is an easy way to do that.

These statements are all on brand for him.

His family immigrated, assimilated, fought for the country. He has always been pro Canada and pro veterans

People are spending so much time inferring and interpreting, getting outraged about the results of their own inference

People could spend time as well to consider his intent and not clumsy execution

He did not spell out to whom he took exception. Based on his words, he did not spell out taking exception to all immigrants in general, but he did appear to take exception to people that he perceives don’t support veterans

Again, you are asking people to be very charitable in their interpretation of what he meant. He can tell us what he meant. I'm all for people having chances to get their point right. People misspeak all the time. He has the ability to set the record straight at any time.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Agree with DM. Particularly in today's cancel culture where the immediate result is job loss and exile to oblivion.

What should be the proper atonement if he refuses to apologize?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He used immigration as THE distinguishing feature of his criticism. All the rest of this is just apologetic window dressing for a man with a long history of public prejudice.

God. I am getting exhausted just by watching all the hand-waving you are doing in this thread.

Was he speaking to all immigrants or would you agree then that he was speaking to the subset of immigrants who have not supported veterans?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Agree with DM. Particularly in today's cancel culture where the immediate result is job loss and exile to oblivion.

The existence of cancel culture doesn't mean what he said shouldn't be subject to criticism.

Whether he should get fired or not is another question altogether. I tend to think that's up to his employers. Personally I would hate to see his legacy go down on this note, even though this was a completely dumb thing to say.

[FlamesAddiction]

The Legion must love that the poppy is now associated with these comments. I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of immigrants and am not sure how I feel about displaying poppies now.

[Manhattanboy]

Isn't part of it scale as well? Ya he showed insensitivity and made some stupid generalizations. And his conclusions were wrong.

But fire him over this where perhaps its a 2/10 on the offensive meter?

A fundamental facet of the outrage culture we live in today is the piling on/snowball effect.

I rolled my eyes at his comments when I saw the segment. But log on to the internet two hours later and you would conclude Cherry was a skinhead Nazi who had clearly demanded that Canada close its borders to immigration.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Its up to him to be clear about the actual point he's making. From the words he directly spoke, he was singling out immigrants.
He's the one with a platform, he has every opportunity to clarify what he meant if he indeed meant something else.

Not sure why you feel the need to do it for him.

A simple apology from Cherry explaining his true intent might have gone a long way to diffuse this, but that ship has sailed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Was he speaking to all immigrants or would you agree then that he was speaking to the subset of immigrants who have not supported veterans?

I don't care BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER.

The moment he singled out immigrants of any stripe IT WAS WRONG.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Legion must love that the poppy is now associated with these comments. I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of immigrants and am not sure how I feel about displaying poppies now.

Oh god.

Are you implying the poppy is an anti immigrant symbol?

Take it back. Own it. Restore the poppy to its rightful glory

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Isn't part of it scale as well? Ya he showed insensitivity and made some stupid generalizations. And his conclusions were wrong.

But fire him over this where perhaps its a 2/10 on the offensive meter?

A fundamental facet of the outrage culture we live in today is the piling on/snowball effect.

I rolled my eyes at his comments when I saw the segment. But log on to the internet two hours later and you would conclude Cherry was a skinhead Nazi who had clearly demanded that Canada close its borders to immigration.

I'd put it higher on the scale, but I do agree with your last point. I am very critical of what he said, but I stop short of the "he has to get fired!!!" brigade on twitter. I think people deserve a chance to see where they've made errors, or to clarify the point they were trying to make if they simply fumbled the delivery.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Was he speaking to all immigrants or would you agree then that he was speaking to the subset of immigrants who have not supported veterans?

Of course he was speaking to immigrants who don't support vets. The question is why single them out? The man speaks for a living, usually from the heart, but maybe he should let the brain take over so he doesn't get himself in trouble like this.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by edslunch

A simple apology from Cherry explaining his true intent might have gone a long way to diffuse this, but that ship has sailed.

I don't think the ship has sailed. The segment was two days ago.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Legion must love that the poppy is now associated with these comments. I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of immigrants and am not sure how I feel about displaying poppies now.

Really??

just wear the poppy for the soldiers who gave their lives not because of someone's comments about them

All the fake outrage is as bad as the comment DC made

Be thankful for the freedom that we have - ignore those who make stupid comments