Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

You are aware that centers have more value than wingers right? 99 points is meaningless if you disappear in the playoffs, 10/10 people will take the player that helps them win in the playoffs rather than flashy regular season stats. If you get offered Couturier for Johnny + a pick you take it and run, it’s not debatable so don’t bother.


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You are aware that Couturier has 2 goals, 4 assists and -6 in 11 playoff games and is 27 yrs old.

Gaudreau, 26, has 3 goals , 10 assists and even in 15 playoff games.

So yeah, it’s definitely debatable.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

You are aware that centers have more value than wingers right? 99 points is meaningless if you disappear in the playoffs, 10/10 people will take the player that helps them win in the playoffs rather than flashy regular season stats. If you get offered Couturier for Johnny + a pick you take it and run, it’s not debatable so don’t bother.


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Lol thank god you are not GM. And I’m usually the one criticizing over the top valuations of Flames players. Anyway agree to disagree.

[Harry Lime]

When a new GM takes over a team (Fletcher in Philly), they usually like to put their 'stamp' on a team, and that sometimes takes the form of moving on from the core of the last regime. Couturier is young enough to be part of the new core. Players like Giroux, Voracek could be pried out?

Neither here nor there for this thread, I guess. Interesting question would be who adds in a Giroux for Gaudreu swap.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

When a new GM takes over a team (Fletcher in Philly), they usually like to put their 'stamp' on a team, and that sometimes takes the form of moving on from the core of the last regime. Couturier is young enough to be part of the new core. Players like Giroux, Voracek could be pried out?

Neither here nor there for this thread, I guess. Interesting question would be who adds in a Giroux for Gaudreu swap.

Philly adds. Giroux is 31 years old.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I'm not sure where to put this... https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/do-the-...loying~1817688

Interesting stats re: Off Zone Time, Dump In Rate, and lack of production from the Hanifin - Hamonic pairing.

This would lead potential unpopular opinions of ...

1. Poor coaching strategy
2. 2nd pairing needing to be split up, or one of them moved.

I would like to see the 2nd & 3rd pairing D switch places, for now.
Trade Hamonic as soon as possible.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

You are aware that centers have more value than wingers right? 99 points is meaningless if you disappear in the playoffs, 10/10 people will take the player that helps them win in the playoffs rather than flashy regular season stats. If you get offered Couturier for Johnny + a pick you take it and run, it’s not debatable so don’t bother.


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Lol it's not only debatable it's a terrible deal for the Flames....their playoff stats are almost identical and JG has been way better in the regular season

[timbit]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol it's not only debatable it's a terrible deal for the Flames....their playoff stats are almost identical and JG has been way better in the regular season

Their playoff stats are not even close. Gaudreau’s are miles better.

[Dragomir]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Lol thank god you are not GM. And I’m usually the one criticizing over the top valuations of Flames players. Anyway agree to disagree.

Lol so then what is a fair valuation of Gaudreau?

McDavid? Crosby?!

This team needs another top 6C badly to balance out the roster and move Backlund down to 3C. If you want to be realistic and not over-value Flames players then that is his market value at the moment. Especially since you yourself said he is unlikely to re-sign.


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[Dragomir]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol it's not only debatable it's a terrible deal for the Flames....their playoff stats are almost identical and JG has been way better in the regular season

No, a terrible deal would be letting him walk for free in 2 years or getting a minimal return on him as a rental. Snatching up a top 6C in his mid 20’s who has hit 76 points is the best realistic scenario. Nobody is going to give up their 1C and unless we rebuild and trade him for picks this is the next best option in order to keep the team competitive.


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[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Lol so then what is a fair valuation of Gaudreau?

McDavid? Crosby?!

This team needs another top 6C badly to balance out the roster and move Backlund down to 3C. If you want to be realistic and not over-value Flames players then that is his market value at the moment. Especially since you yourself said he is unlikely to re-sign.


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No obviously not McDavid or Crosby but he is elite, and I don’t think you’d get many people thinking Couturier is. I’m just saying that trade was crazy but I think we agree on overall strategy of what the Flames should do.

Sell high boys. Just make sure you get a haul and if you don’t, just hang onto him until trade deadline when people go nuts.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Lol so then what is a fair valuation of Gaudreau?

McDavid? Crosby?!

This team needs another top 6C badly to balance out the roster and move Backlund down to 3C. If you want to be realistic and not over-value Flames players then that is his market value at the moment. Especially since you yourself said he is unlikely to re-sign.


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The top 6C was supposed to be Elias Lindholm. If Neal actually cared about winning in Calgary, he would take the first line spot, Lindholm would center the second line and Backlund would be demoted to the 3rd. Or Backlund would stay as a second C with Lindholm on the right wing, which would improve the second line production significantly.

[devo22]

meh, I'd definitely take Couturier for Gaudreau ... if the deal is expanded and Morgan Frost comes too. Otherwise, no thanks.

[442scotty]

Unless Gaudreau has made it known to management that he wants to be a lifer in Calgary (at a reasonable cap of course) then it’s guaranteed that he’s going to be traded. As early as this year depending on how the team is doing and offers received

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by devo22

meh, I'd definitely take Couturier for Gaudreau ... if the deal is expanded and Morgan Frost comes too. Otherwise, no thanks.

It's an inevitability that Treliving will have to shop Gaudreau and a few eastern teams will likely have serious interest but ideally it would be in the offseason. The Flyers make a lot of sense and Couturier would be a nice piece but as you say they would have to add. Gaudreau is the best asset the Flames have had since Iginla and Treliving absolutely has to get maximum value for him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's an inevitability that Treliving will have to shop Gaudreau and a few eastern teams will likely have serious interest but ideally it would be in the offseason. The Flyers make a lot of sense and Couturier would be a nice piece but as you say they would have to add. Gaudreau is the best asset the Flames have had since Iginla and Treliving absolutely has to get maximum value for him.

Yup and the target teams are likely those in the east who have a underwhelming season and are looking for a core change as well
I think the deal should have the long term in mind too

[devo22]

I do think Philly makes all kind of sense as a potential trade partner at some point. They have shown with their moves that they want to win soon and they also have a ridiculous collection of prospects (ultimately Hextall didn't build a winner quickly enough for the owners' liking, but man, he and his scouting staff did a heck of a job over the years). In whichever direction the Flames would want to go in terms of the return, Philly could probably offer it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup and the target teams are likely those in the east who have a underwhelming season and are looking for a core change as well
I think the deal should have the long term in mind too

Absolutely. If the Flyers are calling I'm asking for Couturier and a 1st round pick or as said above Morgan Frost. I can't think of many one for one deals that the Flames would come out ahead or even push unless we are talking about maybe a trade with the Stars where the return is Seguin and the Stars would have to take salary the other way.

[Toonage]

Why move Gaudreau to Philly just to get older in return? I'd want Konecny.

Flames don't have to deal Gaudreau. Flyers want him? Make them pay.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Why move Gaudreau to Philly just to get older in return? I'd want Konecny.

Flames don't have to deal Gaudreau. Flyers want him? Make them pay.

Obviously guys like Giroux, Voracek would be non-starters. Couturier is only a year older and in his prime like Johnny. I wouldn't really consider that getting a lot older as he fits in with the general age of the core. You can't put all your eggs in the prospect basket as they don't always pan out so you need to ensure you are getting a player in his prime that helps you now. I do think the time is nearing where the Flames will have to shop him to get maximum value as Brad needs to make a deal before he's cornered IMO.

[powderjunkie]

Unpopular opinion: it would be really, really hard to get 'fair' value on a Gaudreau trade. There are only a few teams who could make a deal that makes sense for both teams.

Philly has the center depth that they could part with one. Giroux has NMC so he's highly unlikely, and simply not the age we need. Couturier is about to turn 27; he's 9 months older than Johnny. It might be the only 1 for 1 that would actually make sense for both teams (pretty sure needs an add or retention to make cap work this year).

I think Philly is still closer to saying no because Couturier might be the best value contract in the whole league, and adding 2.4M to their cap doesn't help solve their [self-imposed] cap crunch next year. Currently 10M to re-sign Patrick, Lindblom, 2 RFA D, a goalie (and probably 1 more D and 1 for F).

I'm not sure how people view Voracek's contract? Presumably 2M too much for 2 years too long?


Gaudreau + Brodie + Bennett

Couturier + Voracek + Good ELC F (Rubstov?)


Equal money this year. Philly sheds extra 4.65M next year. Ideally you might add Niskanen and Lucic in if the NTCs and NMCs don't preclude. Not sure I love it for either team - especially robbing Calgary's D depth this year...