Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

2017-2018 44 points
2018-2019 78 points

2019-2020 on pace for 59 points. Can you help me figure out which number that’s closer too? So how is my statement inaccurate? Or are you just going off of “visibly” being better.

Like I said, the point total is almost split. It's 15 above 44, 20 below 79. You crowing and lol'ing about it is nonsense.

I also value 47 goals well above 44 points (not that he's hit 47 goals, but his on pace is part of the discussion).

It's bad he's playing more?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

My unpopular opinion - put Lucic on the 1st line with 13 and 23. Line 2 then is Tkachuk-Lindholm-x. I think this gives you balance offensively (and I hear those that might say "yeah, balanced crap", but after all you wanted unpopular opinions), Lucic gives those 2 someone who will work the corners and boards, is defensively responsible, and will offer protection. He is also a pretty good match for that line speed-wise.

I'd give it a shot. Those two work well with someone who can actually work the boards and can shoot a puck half decently - that's why Ferland and Lindholm showed such good chemistry with those two.

Hell, if all Johnny and Mony is doing on entries are dumping it into the corner, might as well have Lucic come in with a full head of steam.

[The Cobra]

The big problem with having Lucic on the first line is that he's barely an NHL player anymore.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Rando

Like I said, the point total is almost split. It's 15 above 44, 20 below 79. You crowing and lol'ing about it is nonsense.

I also value 47 goals well above 44 points (not that he's hit 47 goals, but his on pace is part of the discussion).

It's bad he's playing more?

Again. The poster claimed Lindholm is a bright spot for us this year and is “closer to the PPG player we saw last year then the 45 point guy he was in Carolina”

I showed that at the least he’s in the middle. And he’s closer to being that 45 point guy then the guy he was last year. You can say he’s a better player then he was in Carolina and I’d agree with you. But that’s not what I said. I said he’s closer scoring wise to his Carolina totals this year then he is to last years totals. You can explain it to slow starts. Poor supporting casts. That’s not the point though. The fact remains if someone says he’s looking closer to a PPG then his previous point totals in Carolina it’s just not true. Regardless of the reason.

I’m actually of the personal opinion he’s the best player we have on the team right now and in general because his game isn’t just about offense.But that’s just my opinion. And the stats don’t back that opinion up right now. The entire team is off to terrible starts. I don’t think any player no matter how good we think they are otherwise has been a “bright spot” this year.

[Vinny01]

Lindholm is on pace for 47 goals and twice as much as the next flame but nah let’s poop on that to because it is fun to say everything sucks right now.

[Dragomir]

I think we must admit that this core is simply not good enough.

We lack a 1C and a top 6 winger but most importantly these players don’t have the mental fortitude for big games. We saw this against Colorado time and time again.

Tre needs to admit to himself that this team is what it is and start the rebuild. The sooner the better in my opinion....


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[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

I think we must admit that this core is simply not good enough.

We lack a 1C and a top 6 winger but most importantly these players don’t have the mental fortitude for big games. We saw this against Colorado time and time again.

Tre needs to admit to himself that this team is what it is and start the rebuild. The sooner the better in my opinion....

I don't think Treliving is qualified to do this. If he can't build, why do people think he can rebuild?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I don't think Treliving is qualified to do this. If he can't build, why do people think he can rebuild?

Fire another gm
Rinse and repeat

[CalgaryFan1988]

I'm so tired of people blaming the GM or the coach.

The same GM and coach led the team to their best season ever earlier this year. They haven't changed the roster for the worse.... Look at the "leaders" on the ice, you'll find the problem.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Fire another gm
Rinse and repeat

Keep following the same approach.
Rinse and repeat.

You need to have the right guiding hand in place. If that’s Treliving, great.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Fire another gm

Rinse and repeat

If he can't get it done he's not the right guy. Keep looking.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

I think we must admit that this core is simply not good enough.

We lack a 1C and a top 6 winger but most importantly these players don’t have the mental fortitude for big games. We saw this against Colorado time and time again.

Tre needs to admit to himself that this team is what it is and start the rebuild. The sooner the better in my opinion....


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I asked this in the PGT for the last game, but will ask here. Which other teams in the NHL have more top 6 players than the Flames? What makes each of those players top 6? Flames have 4 out of six I think we would agree. So there's two on the top line that don't fit the bill, but is that really the case? Do other teams that make the playoffs each have 6 players that qualify as top 6?

I feel that we may be overblowing the notion of not having two other players to make the team scoring lines more complete. I feel that the only teams that feature 5 or 6 players that are considered 'top 6' by CP's criteria are extremely stack. Granted, it is something that should be attained still, but may be unrealistic in this salary cap landscape.

Flames have the ability to spread out 4 top tier talents amongst two lines. They can form combinations that have them as pairs between the two lines, with a fill in player to complete the lines, or overload the top line with three of them (which they are doing), and put all the onus on one player to carry the two others on the line.

I think what teams typically have when they have two scoring lines, is two strong centres that are running their lines. With splitting Lindholm and Monahan up so they can be the centre for their own lines, Flames have ideally two good centres to run their lines. If Monahan could get his head out of his ass, and start making #### happen again, that could be the difference of having two effective scoring lines then. Because the roster does have players that could play along with Monahan and be positive contributors. They can be your Ferland's and Glencross's whereas on their own they aren't gonna make a difference, but with linemate(s) that can dictate play, can light up the lamp.

So I don't feel the issue with the Flames is not having another top 6 player to bring the number up to 5 on the team. I think it's moreso that the top players aren't preform as they're expected to anymore aside from Lindholm.

[Dragomir]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I asked this in the PGT for the last game, but will ask here. Which other teams in the NHL have more top 6 players than the Flames? What makes each of those players top 6? Flames have 4 out of six I think we would agree. So there's two on the top line that don't fit the bill, but is that really the case? Do other teams that make the playoffs each have 6 players that qualify as top 6?

I feel that we may be overblowing the notion of not having two other players to make the team scoring lines more complete. I feel that the only teams that feature 5 or 6 players that are considered 'top 6' by CP's criteria are extremely stack. Granted, it is something that should be attained still, but may be unrealistic in this salary cap landscape.

Flames have the ability to spread out 4 top tier talents amongst two lines. They can form combinations that have them as pairs between the two lines, with a fill in player to complete the lines, or overload the top line with three of them (which they are doing), and put all the onus on one player to carry the two others on the line.

I think what teams typically have when they have two scoring lines, is two strong centres that are running their lines. With splitting Lindholm and Monahan up so they can be the centre for their own lines, Flames have ideally two good centres to run their lines. If Monahan could get his head out of his ass, and start making #### happen again, that could be the difference of having two effective scoring lines then. Because the roster does have players that could play along with Monahan and be positive contributors. They can be your Ferland's and Glencross's whereas on their own they aren't gonna make a difference, but with linemate(s) that can dictate play, can light up the lamp.

So I don't feel the issue with the Flames is not having another top 6 player to bring the number up to 5 on the team. I think it's moreso that the top players aren't preform as they're expected to anymore aside from Lindholm.

I would say most of the league would agree Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Lindholm are top 6 players and it ends there. Backlund and Frolik are not top 6 material anymore so we have 4/6. We have two top line left wingers in Gaudreau/Tkachuk a second line center in Monahan and a potential top line C or RW in Lindholm.

We still need that bonafide 1C and another RW in my opinion. We’re in year 6 of the original rebuild so it’s at the point where what we see is what we get. Currently this team looks like an 8th/9th seed team... We can clearly see that they way overachieved last year until the ASG when they got exposed. If we sell high now on some top end pieces we could really accelerate a rebuild and with Tre’s drafting I would trust him to do it.


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[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Keep following the same approach.
Rinse and repeat.

You need to have the right guiding hand in place. If that’s Treliving, great.

Most gms are more effective when allowed to manage for the long term
The pattern of constant changes is a common attribute of organizations that don’t succeed
Lead to different outcome

[timbit]

Fire the GM? The Coach? They were pretty damn good last season.

But I guess it is the easy thing to do.

How about the players being more accountable? Every other business in the world, the top paid people are ultimately responsible for performance and producing the right results.

It’s way to early to be moving people out. Having said that, it’s time to put the onus of winning on the top paid performers. They got loads of credit and rightfully so for a franchise record regular season last year.

Time to step up.

[locsofblu]

It really sucks being a flames fan for the last 29 years.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most gms are more effective when allowed to manage for the long term
The pattern of constant changes is a common attribute of organizations that don’t succeed
Lead to different outcome

I can’t think of many successful organizations that prioritize tenure over performance.

The Patriots went through 4 coaches in 9 years before they found the guy worth keeping.

Marvin Lewis coached the Bengals for 16 seasons.

The Oilers have had the same guys running the show for how long?

If you think Treliving is good, then he should be the guy. I personally have a hard time getting there as his plan is rather opaque. But you can’t blame this franchise’s record on having a quick trigger finger on GM’s. No one has left here for success elsewhere since Cliff Fletcher. Most have never GM’ed again.

[blender]

Flames are a good team. The NHL is full of good teams; at least 20. Of those, 7 or 8 are a cut above the rest. Flames aren't in that group, but they are surely in the top 20 and that gives them a chance. To write off a season now is the height of folly.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Nm

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Again. The poster claimed Lindholm is a bright spot for us this year and is “closer to the PPG player we saw last year then the 45 point guy he was in Carolina”

I showed that at the least he’s in the middle. And he’s closer to being that 45 point guy then the guy he was last year. You can say he’s a better player then he was in Carolina and I’d agree with you. But that’s not what I said. I said he’s closer scoring wise to his Carolina totals this year then he is to last years totals....

The only reason why Lindholm is not on PPG pace is because 13 and 23 are in a big slump. He is not driving that line, he is a high end complimentary player. When his C and play-making wing are off, what can he do? Work hard and capitalize on his own chances and that is exactly what he is doing. He scored 8 this year so far, Johnny and Mony have 5 combined.