Still so much hate for TLJ, eh? I don't think it's as bad as some fans make it out to be, and it's nowhere near the horrendous piles of s**t that the prequels ended up being.
I agree it's not a great film, and there are certainly some dumb scenes (casino sequence, Mary Poppins Leia, the slow motion space chase, Poe/Hux prank phone call). But for the most part I enjoyed it. I liked what they did with Luke's character arc, and the interactions between Rey and Kylo were quite good and well acted. The entire Yoda scene was wonderful, and the throne room battle was a lot of fun. The movie is also beautifully photographed.
As far as the acting is concerned, I thought Hamill stole the show. Fantastic performance IMO.
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Still so much hate for TLJ, eh? I don't think it's as bad as some fans make it out to be, and it's nowhere near the horrendous piles of s**t that the prequels ended up being.
I agree it's not a great film, and there are certainly some dumb scenes (casino sequence, Mary Poppins Leia, the slow motion space chase, Poe/Hux prank phone call). But for the most part I enjoyed it. I liked what they did with Luke's character arc, and the interactions between Rey and Kylo were quite good and well acted. The entire Yoda scene was wonderful, and the throne room battle was a lot of fun. The movie is also beautifully photographed.
As far as the acting is concerned, I thought Hamill stole the show. Fantastic performance IMO.
Your whole post is great - however I'm the opposite conclusion.
The dumb plot points you mentions wrecked all of the great things you listed.
Basically not rewatchable without skipping the opening, casino and slow speed space chase.
Still so much hate for TLJ, eh? I don't think it's as bad as some fans make it out to be, and it's nowhere near the horrendous piles of s**t that the prequels ended up being.
I agree it's not a great film, and there are certainly some dumb scenes (casino sequence, Mary Poppins Leia, the slow motion space chase, Poe/Hux prank phone call). But for the most part I enjoyed it. I liked what they did with Luke's character arc, and the interactions between Rey and Kylo were quite good and well acted. The entire Yoda scene was wonderful, and the throne room battle was a lot of fun. The movie is also beautifully photographed.
As far as the acting is concerned, I thought Hamill stole the show. Fantastic performance IMO.
I found those "dumb" scenes also dumb, but the scenes you mentions really don't redeem anything for me. Yoda and Luke were presented totally out of character. Yoda's force ghost was used in a very different and jarring way than previous force ghosts - and seemingly entirely for comedic effect.
I absolutely hated the throne room battle. It was more of a dance sequence than a light saber dual. It looks cool when the red imperial guards ripoffs are approaching with their weapons. But I spend the entire time wondering why the guards are attacking one at a time. Everything in that scene is done just for the purpose of visual affect.
If you contrast this with the Darth Maul fight in TPM, they really made an effort to have that fight work around the strengths of each of the combatants.
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Still so much hate for TLJ, eh? I don't think it's as bad as some fans make it out to be, and it's nowhere near the horrendous piles of s**t that the prequels ended up being.
This goes without saying. Nobody is saying it was 'Prequels Bad' and if they are they should be strapped into a chair and forced to re-watch the prequels.
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I found those "dumb" scenes also dumb, but the scenes you mentions really don't redeem anything for me. Yoda and Luke were presented totally out of character. Yoda's force ghost was used in a very different and jarring way than previous force ghosts - and seemingly entirely for comedic effect.
I absolutely hated the throne room battle. It was more of a dance sequence than a light saber dual. It looks cool when the red imperial guards ripoffs are approaching with their weapons. But I spend the entire time wondering why the guards are attacking one at a time. Everything in that scene is done just for the purpose of visual affect.
If you contrast this with the Darth Maul fight in TPM, they really made an effort to have that fight work around the strengths of each of the combatants.
The Darth Maul fight in TPM was so good it almost redeemed the movie. It was so good and the music could not have been any better.
Mark Hamill to this day still isn't happy with how Luke was portrayed in TLJ, about the biggest thing that redeemed it was his death scene which was well done and made sense.
I wasn't a huge scene of the Yoda Luke scene. It just seemed off somehow, and Luke didn't come across very well. I'm going to burn it all down followed by oh my god the books.
As for the fight scene, I spent years imagining what Imperial Guards could do, that they would be awesome Jedi Killing machines, but in the end they just weren't, I think one ended up as confetti.
I mean I think a lot of people have this view of the TLJ as epicly horrible, I think its more along the lines that it pulled things out of the line that was established in the first movie and it never really reached its potential
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Luke was not in TLJ that was someone else, even Hamill confessed to this although has walked back those comments because still wants those sweet $$$$$.
Mark Hamill to this day still isn't happy with how Luke was portrayed in TLJ, about the biggest thing that redeemed it was his death scene which was well done and made sense.
I wasn't a huge scene of the Yoda Luke scene. It just seemed off somehow, and Luke didn't come across very well. I'm going to burn it all down followed by oh my god the books.
As for the fight scene, I spent years imagining what Imperial Guards could do, that they would be awesome Jedi Killing machines, but in the end they just weren't, I think one ended up as confetti.
I mean I think a lot of people have this view of the TLJ as epicly horrible, I think its more along the lines that it pulled things out of the line that was established in the first movie and it never really reached its potential
TLJ was just too far out of line with anything in the series. They wasted so much potential too.
One of my biggest gripes was with Captain Phasma. This deleted scene really illustrates the potential they had with her as a villain:
The movie basically just did away with her for the sake of it. Rian Johnson was clearly just trying to be clever in doing so, but he missed the mark both tonally and narratively in so many ways. He was constantly shoe-horning in new characters, but he had a potential top notch character in Phasma that he totally ignored.
Johnson was also obsessed with style over substance. Beyond the throne room, we also had that bomber run. Johnson obviously just put that together, because he thought it would look cool. He totally ignored previous mechanics in the SW universe or even basic logic....they are trying to attack a heavily armed gun ship surrounding by very fast tie fighters....so they use incredibly slow bombers that need to be directly over their target and have no long range capability or armour/shields...and they are filled to the brim with extremely volatile bombs that blow up the entire ship if hit with even a glancing shot.
Once again, I find the TLJ just feels like a movie from a different film franchise - a film franchise I wouldn't watch.
The part that makes me laugh at the complaints about Phasma is that she's pretty much just exactly like Boba Fett - who people loved in the original trilogy.
Cool looking and overall inconsequential to the story line. Hell Fett didn't even have a speaking line in ROTJ, and really his only role was to get Hans from Cloud City to Jabba.
Both were removed from the movies in similarly cheesy ways too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
Luke was not in TLJ that was someone else, even Hamill confessed to this although has walked back those comments because still wants those sweet $$$$$.
Nah - Luke was portrayed fine.
He was always whiny in the original trilogy too, and had trouble resisting his worst urges from day 1. Hans was always the better character.
I think this trilogy has a lot of the same cheese and plot holes that the original trilogy did (Death Star plot holes, Ewoks using rocks and sticks against storm troopers) - people are just less willing to overlook it because of nostalgia, and not having the emotional attachment that they do to the original trilogy.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 10-30-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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The disdain with which Captain Phasma was dealt with was the best part of TLJ. What a horrible character.
To each their own I guess. I really liked Phasma and thought she stood out as a great potential villain. They should have gotten rid of Hux, if anybody.
Luke was not in TLJ that was someone else, even Hamill confessed to this although has walked back those comments because still wants those sweet $$$$$.
