Canadians 'drowning in debt': 47% will borrow to cover costs, survey says

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by V

Just for fun, I thought I’d answer these.

I make less than the median household income. I had no financial start in life. I paid for my own education. No inheritance. No money put away by grandparents. I save a lot, mostly by maxing out my kids’ RESPs. My parents gave me no money for my first house. My parents are not remotely wealthy, although it was a nice stable home that I guess if I failed miserably at life I could find a way to survive in their basement, I guess?

Yeah, of course I have life insurance. But I don’t have a cable package, I don’t have a data plan, I don’t have car payments, I don’t have student debt, I don’t travel for vacation. I don’t spend thousands on Christmas and birthdays. We don’t eat out. Ever. That list right there has to be worth, what, almost 1000 bucks every month? It probably sounds like hell to some people, but I think that’s part of the problem.

I do have a nice woodworking shop, but that came in my late 30s. It also helps as a bit of a side hustle. It hasn’t totally paid for itself, but it’s not far off.

I’ve been lucky, for sure. I’ve had steady employment my whole career, although part of that is because of where I choose to work.

We enjoy camping. It’s a couple hundred bucks a year.

It’s not for everyone, that’s for sure, but I really wonder if people are actually legitimately happy with their consumeristic lifestyle. There are alternatives, and I know we’ve found a life that we find very satisfying. Focusing on supporting others and spending time together as a family is rewarding for us, but I know it’s not for everyone.

Hah, was not expecting answers to my laundry list of invasive questions.

Good for you. That lifestyle sounds appealing, TBH.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

To go one step further, if you and your wife continue this lifestyle of living within your means and saving, sooner than later you will hit a point where you won't have to work to live.

There are not many better feelings than working in a job where you have "f*** you" money and you can walk away at anytime. I've seen so many people who have to put up with complete BS from their employer b/c they can't afford to lose their job.

I learned this lesson a few years ago (and if you have been reading CP, I still am). One of the best financial decisions I ever made was picking up some freelance work on the side. An extra 60-70k coming from sources that aren't my job means that I can really leave or move or do whatever I want and it is incredibly freeing.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

People can’t budget and capitalism is failing. There’s no single answer here. It’s a combination of consumption culture, keeping up with the joneses etc and stagnant wages, rising cost of living.

That’s actually more scary to me than wasting time arguing about which is correct, it’s both. Not only is it exceptionally worrying but instead of waking up to it, far too many people busy themselves with judging others for not keeping up or spending beyond their means to try.

It’s equal parts scary and sad how few people are concerned about wealth inequality and how to fix it.

My biggest fear about the wealth inequality is I feel like every boomer I know has their retirement tied up in housing. They are all relying on being able to sell their primary residence (and in a lot of cases, their secondary residence) for a huge return. Well... who the hell is going to buy them?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by you&me

Exactly. It would be exceedingly difficult to find a home suitable for a family of 6 for $450,000 in Calgary.

This would be like my grandfather saying he never spent more than $10,000 on a new car... Great - but you haven't bought a new car for like, 35 years!

You can get a very nice starter house in Acadia for less than that, with a pretty nice size lot, and very close to downtown if that is where you work.

[V]

My biggest fear about the wealth inequality is I feel like every boomer I know has their retirement tied up in housing. They are all relying on being able to sell their primary residence (and in a lot of cases, their secondary residence) for a huge return. Well... who the hell is going to buy them?

I think you are right, but I wonder if there have been any studies on that. I don’t think house prices are going to go up for a very long time.

[nfotiu]

If everyone listened to the most conservative advice in this thread and stopped taking on any consumer debt, the economy would be crippled, and everyone would lose their jobs or be making a lot less money. Even people who save all their money benefit from those who don't. So why are they always so judgmental on how others spend?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

If everyone listened to the most conservative advice in this thread and stopped taking on any consumer debt, the economy would be crippled, and everyone would lose their jobs or be making a lot less money. Even people who save all their money benefit from those who don't. So why are they always so judgmental on how others spend?

I am not judgmental of how others spend unless it gets out of hand. Then it affects everyone.

There are consequences to all of us if consumer debt is not managed properly.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by V

Just for fun, I thought I’d answer these.



I make less than the median household income. I had no financial start in life. I paid for my own education. No inheritance. No money put away by grandparents. I save a lot, mostly by maxing out my kids’ RESPs. My parents gave me no money for my first house. My parents are not remotely wealthy, although it was a nice stable home that I guess if I failed miserably at life I could find a way to survive in their basement, I guess?



Yeah, of course I have life insurance. But I don’t have a cable package, I don’t have a data plan, I don’t have car payments, I don’t have student debt, I don’t travel for vacation. I don’t spend thousands on Christmas and birthdays. We don’t eat out. Ever. That list right there has to be worth, what, almost 1000 bucks every month? It probably sounds like hell to some people, but I think that’s part of the problem.

I do have a nice woodworking shop, but that came in my late 30s. It also helps as a bit of a side hustle. It hasn’t totally paid for itself, but it’s not far off.



I’ve been lucky, for sure. I’ve had steady employment my whole career, although part of that is because of where I choose to work.



We enjoy camping. It’s a couple hundred bucks a year.




It’s not for everyone, that’s for sure, but I really wonder if people are actually legitimately happy with their consumeristic lifestyle. There are alternatives, and I know we’ve found a life that we find very satisfying. Focusing on supporting others and spending time together as a family is rewarding for us, but I know it’s not for everyone.

So you've never tried sushi? It's great!

Was out in Vancouver last week for 7 days. 3 days too long. It's so damn gloomy out there. It rained 6 of the 7 days and the day it didnt rain it felt like we were in the matrix. I think we saw the sun for a total of 3 hours.

Great place to visit, just for the food alone but living out there... Unless you own your house, paying $2k/month rent for a condo doesn't really seem like living. Was in a brand new 950sq ft condo airbnb for the entire trip and by the end of it with 2 kids it felt so cramped. Calgary is definitely a way better city to raise kids. Even in Whitehorn!

[you&me]

Originally Posted by redforever

You can get a very nice starter house in Acadia for less than that, with a pretty nice size lot, and very close to downtown if that is where you work.

Yes you can... Might be a little cozy for a family of 6, but it could be done.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Great take.

One thing with people that overspend is there doesn't seem to be any outward consequences. Like, you can see people you know can't afford things based on what you can calculate for their incomes, yet there they are doing all the things and having all the stuff. I rarely see the house of cards come crashing down like you'd expect. Maybe it catches up with them at retirement age and at 42 I just haven't been around long enough to see the full repercussions manifest? IDK, but I imagine the fact that people can just go on and on in debt seemingly in perpetuity encourages other people to do the same.

It catches up at divorce and retirement age.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

My biggest fear about the wealth inequality is I feel like every boomer I know has their retirement tied up in housing. They are all relying on being able to sell their primary residence (and in a lot of cases, their secondary residence) for a huge return. Well... who the hell is going to buy them?

I feel like a lot of that is anecdotal. Yeah, there are people who are planning on selling their homes eventually and it's a lot of money tied up in real estate across the economy for sure. At the same time though, people will buy them as they move through life and want that kind of lifestyle.

I'm sure that 8-9 years ago on this board there were posts about how millenials were not interested in larger vehicles. Then the millenials hit the ages where they began having kids and kind of settling down. When that happens, a Smartcar sounds great, until you try to fit junior and his buddy and their gear to head to soccer or hockey or whatever. So, at about that time we saw SUV purchases rise along with that rise in household formations.

I have no prediction on the timing of when that happens, but I don't think that the housing market will be a pure calamity as boomers look to sell and downsize. The reality is that when there is a lot of money tied up in these places, that they're generally nice places with amenities that people want...eventually.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

I feel like a lot of that is anecdotal. Yeah, there are people who are planning on selling their homes eventually and it's a lot of money tied up in real estate across the economy for sure. At the same time though, people will buy them as they move through life and want that kind of lifestyle.

I'm sure that 8-9 years ago on this board there were posts about how millenials were not interested in larger vehicles. Then the millenials hit the ages where they began having kids and kind of settling down. When that happens, a Smartcar sounds great, until you try to fit junior and his buddy and their gear to head to soccer or hockey or whatever. So, at about that time we saw SUV purchases rise along with that rise in household formations.

I have no prediction on the timing of when that happens, but I don't think that the housing market will be a pure calamity as boomers look to sell and downsize. The reality is that when there is a lot of money tied up in these places, that they're generally nice places with amenities that people want...eventually.

It's already becoming a problem.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mill...roblems-2019-3

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

If everyone listened to the most conservative advice in this thread and stopped taking on any consumer debt, the economy would be crippled, and everyone would lose their jobs or be making a lot less money. Even people who save all their money benefit from those who don't. So why are they always so judgmental on how others spend?

i mean, if you bought less stuff then you would need less money, or would get to work less hours, enjoying more of your limited time on earth

seems like a win/win to me

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Slava

I feel like a lot of that is anecdotal. Yeah, there are people who are planning on selling their homes eventually and it's a lot of money tied up in real estate across the economy for sure. At the same time though, people will buy them as they move through life and want that kind of lifestyle.

I'm sure that 8-9 years ago on this board there were posts about how millenials were not interested in larger vehicles. Then the millenials hit the ages where they began having kids and kind of settling down. When that happens, a Smartcar sounds great, until you try to fit junior and his buddy and their gear to head to soccer or hockey or whatever. So, at about that time we saw SUV purchases rise along with that rise in household formations.

I have no prediction on the timing of when that happens, but I don't think that the housing market will be a pure calamity as boomers look to sell and downsize. The reality is that when there is a lot of money tied up in these places, that they're generally nice places with amenities that people want...eventually.

I think the problem is, on average, millenials just simply have less income relative to living costs than boomers did. Whether is due to avocado toast or not I won't speculate, but I feel like i know a lot of people who are still renting in their late 30s/early 40s, and a notable chunk of those who own a home got seed money from their parents. Purely anecdotal of course.

[TheIronMaiden]

This thread seems like a good place to ask a question that I have been meaning the bring up on a slow day. When was the last time you went an entire day without buying anything. When was the last time you went a week?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This thread seems like a good place to ask a question that I have been meaning the bring up on a slow day. When was the last time you went an entire day without buying anything. When was the last time you went a week?

Like yesterday? I learned fiscal temperance after my divorce. During the separation and up until a couple years ago, I spent every single penny of my pay cheques. I thankfully never went into debt but I didn't save anything.

A lot of the time, we spend because it fills some kind of void we think that we have, and it does take a lot of discipline to realize that there is a bigger void by not having any money.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This thread seems like a good place to ask a question that I have been meaning the bring up on a slow day. When was the last time you went an entire day without buying anything. When was the last time you went a week?

the majority of days for my house

aside from paying utilities we really only spend money on groceries once a week

[Locke]

Originally Posted by V

We enjoy camping. It’s a couple hundred bucks a year.

Not anymore! Justin Trudeau got re-elected! If he gives everyone a couple grand to go camping then you might be able to turn a tidy camping profit!

[Oling_Roachinen]

I don't think there's been a time in my adult life that I didn't buy something in a week.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This thread seems like a good place to ask a question that I have been meaning the bring up on a slow day. When was the last time you went an entire day without buying anything. When was the last time you went a week?

If you are not doing this 3-4 times a week you already have a problem IMO.