[PGT] Flames 1 Jets 2

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

The players give a sh*t meter is not there. Until that changes they are not going to have much success this season. Also if they have tuned out the coaching staff then start gutting the team and stock up on picks.

You can't start gutting the team when the going gets tough. Lots of good pieces here, they just have to tighten things up and play the right way. These are learning curves, every team has them.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ talk to a goalie, GioforPM. They don’t want all shots blocked. They like D that pick their spots

Hamonic was not covering anyone specific, he appeared to be figuring out what to do with himself, wasn’t blocking anything except Rittich’s line of sight, (so I don’t even know why you are on about blocking shots) and no matter what Frolik did, the play continues, and it is whataboutism pointing elsewhere.

You made me watch it again here, and I agree with my earlier opinion even more so. He was just cruising across in front of Rittich, covering nobody in particular, and spent too long right in front of him at the wrong time. That’s the kind of play where a coach shows the guy the video and asks what the #### he was doing.

Lack of awareness on Hamonic’s part on that play contributed to the goal, cost the team a point, and gave Winnipeg the chance at 2, on which they capitalized

I’m not apologizing for saying he was bad on that play

[Robo]

I figured last night would go to whichever team got the lucky bounce at the end in a low scoring game the players honestly looked scared to do a sharp turn or get up to top speed on the ice and I dont blame them. Although it was nice to watch and I'm glad nobody was injured that was just ugly hockey between both teams

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

You can't start gutting the team when the going gets tough. Lots of good pieces here, they just have to tighten things up and play the right way. These are learning curves, every team has them.

This is why Canadian teams can't have nice things - the fans are way too impatient.

We're 13 games in to the season, and the Flames are 6-5-2, and the following people have already been listed as needing replaced or fired into the sun (that I can think of, off hand):

Treliving
Peters
Gaudreau
Monahan
Tkachuk
Backlund
Frolik
Bennett
Ryan
Lucic
Mangiapane
Jankowski
Rieder
Czarnik
Brodie
Hamonic

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ talk to a goalie, GioforPM. They don’t want all shots blocked. They like D that pick their spots

Hamonic was not covering anyone specific, he appeared to be figuring out what to do with himself, wasn’t blocking anything except Rittich’s line of sight, (so I don’t even know why you are on about blocking shots) and no matter what Frolik did, the play continues, and it is whataboutism pointing elsewhere.

You made me watch it again here, and I agree with my earlier opinion even more so. He was just cruising across in front of Rittich, covering nobody in particular, and spent too long right in front of him at the wrong time. That’s the kind of play where a coach shows the guy the video and asks what the #### he was doing.

Lack of awareness on Hamonic’s part on that play contributed to the goal, cost the team a point, and gave Winnipeg the chance at 2, on which they capitalized

I’m not apologizing for saying he was bad on that play

Not asking you to apologize, just disagreeing. But I do know that players are coached to block shots, not clear the way for them to get through as you are suggesting. When a shot is blocked 9/10 times it doesn’t make it near the goal.

I rewatched it as well. I don’t think Hamonic was unaware. He just was caught somewhat in no man’s land because the play turned the way it did. And I still think the Jet (Scheifele?) with a moving screen was the bigger cause (after not getting it out in the first place).

[NewFan]

Flames need to dictate the play. All good teams dictate the play, and continuously on the puck. This year flames gives to much to other team, and always wait them ti come first. When finally get the puck usually dump to opposition and change and start it again. I wish they get a good system in D zone to come out with the puck and quick rush to attack and don't give other team less time to settle their game. In The begining of last season they looked slow but after few games, they played with more speed. I hope same thing this year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Definitely. But then I believe when most people talk about officiating bias they do not acknowledge this. It is a fan site but I would argue for the most part, people want to engage in honest discussion about the team and not just display their unabashed fandom.

In this case, I don’t believe it is mere unabashed fandom. Like Enoch insinuated I don’t believe it is deliberate, but would be unsurprised that NHL officials are more attentive and more prone to call infractions against the Flames in large part as an instinctive coping strategy to compensate for the high number of penalties the Flames drew last year. It’s human nature.


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[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by NewFan

Flames need to dictate the play. All good teams dictate the play, and continuously on the puck. This year flames gives to much to other team, and always wait them ti come first. When finally get the puck usually dump to opposition and change and start it again. I wish they get a good system in D zone to come out with the puck and quick rush to attack and don't give other team less time to settle their game. In The begining of last season they looked slow but after few games, they played with more speed. I hope same thing this year.

After the playoffs some teams have adjusted and started playing the Flames with more speed and "possession". I think your assessment is accurate that the Flames need to get back to dictating the play and driving possession. Too often as you have suggested we are giving the puck back, which puts us back on the defensive and gives the other team more options. I think it is more a matter of the "team" playing the right way and they are not quite there yet. Sure we got beat on 3 on 3 but for some guys on the ice it is a learning curve. The coach has to show some trust in the players and sometimes they will make mistakes. "Bennett's penalty against the AV's Ryan getting caught flat footed". Unfortunately in hockey the process involves identifying and correcting individual and team mistakes from game to game. There is plenty of effort, I think the guys are trying, but the results are not there yet.

I believe 2 big factors is that teams saw the Flames lose in the playoffs and the team is trying to adopt a style of play that addresses that. These can lead to confidence issues especially that first loss against the AV's but the Flames are still kicking, and hopefully everyone on the same page soon enough. The talent is there we just have some individual, and team areas to address.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You mean how they generally got outplayed, and combined for precisely zero (0) goals in their new configuration?

In a game in which the ice was bad and covered in snow? How shocking. I think the lines did enough good things under extremely poor conditions to warrant another look. The puck was bouncing so much that I found it difficult to judge which team was getting the better of the play. I sure did not think that the shot-count was an accurate reflection of the matchup.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is why Canadian teams can't have nice things - the fans are way too impatient.



We're 13 games in to the season, and the Flames are 6-5-2, and the following people have already been listed as needing replaced or fired into the sun (that I can think of, off hand):



Treliving

Peters

Gaudreau

Monahan

Tkachuk

Backlund

Frolik

Bennett

Ryan

Lucic

Mangiapane

Jankowski

Rieder

Czarnik

Brodie

Hamonic

What, no goalies listed?? We’re making progress!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In a game in which the ice was bad and covered in snow? How shocking. I think the lines did enough good things under extremely poor conditions to warrant another look. The puck was bouncing so much that I found it difficult to judge which team was getting the better of the play. I sure did not think that the shot-count was an accurate reflection of the matchup.

And that’s why the coach perhaps should have shaken up the lines next game, where everything is normal

I didn’t say these lines won’t work. For the third and final time, my point was about Peters and I don’t think the game with a very different physical environment is the one in which to start experimenting.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And that’s why the coach perhaps should have shaken up the lines next game, where everything is normal

You think going with the set lines would have made a lick of difference in a game in which NO ONE could control the puck? I don't.

I get your point, an I disagree. There was nothing wrong with juggling the lines in a game which was going to be decided by bounces anyways. One could argue that this was as good a place to do it as any.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by heep223

What, no goalies listed?? We’re making progress!

Sadly, now that you mention it, Talbot should be on the list as well.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You think going with the set lines would have made a lick of difference in a game in which NO ONE could control the puck? I don't.

I get your point, an I disagree. There was nothing wrong with juggling the lines in a game which was going to be decided by bounces anyways. One could argue that this was as good a place to do it as any.

Fair, we can disagree.

I think the case for it not working is at least as strong, if not stronger, than any argument it did.

The one goal they did manage to score was when guys were with familiar linemates (on PP1)

I think if you were to look at this scientifically, you want to do it in as predictable and controlled an environment as possible.

You can’t isolate the impact of line changes or playing conditions as the reason for results of the failure to produce