Andersson vs Brodie paired with Gio

[bubbsy]

I haven't liked Andersson's game the last few. Ok for the most part, but then lack of attention to detail has caused goals against.

1) vs ducks - brutal neutral zone pinch after a face off, results in the goal against
2) vs caps - I realize he's in a tough spot there when Talbot misplays the puck behind the net, but if you are going to cover the front of the open net, be aware of the puck

I personally feel the flames look better when Giordano plays with Brodie and Andersson is with kylington.

[Split98]

As long as Brodie is here, he produces best as Brodano and that's not a bad thing. His gaffes can cost us every now and then, but there's no question that is the best pairing when we look at the big picture.

Anderson has played very well with Gio, and it's obviously great for his development. But for the future of the team, an aggressive anchor paired with a smooth-skating ninja is a D-pairing we've come to appreciate quite a bit. Between Valimaki, Andersson and Kylington we're looking pretty good at developing another really strong pairing. I've liked Andersson and Kylington together in spurts here, and we thankfully have enough D-depth to mix things up if things come apart at the seams - but ideally, that's a pairing that develops.

I've thought Han/Ham have been pretty good together as well, for what it's worth - especially this year

Gio - Brodie
Han - Ham
Andersson - Kylington
Stone

Looks pretty solid to me

[ricardodw]

I think the Flames are trying to figure out what they have in Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki.

There are not of lot of NHL legit top-4 d-man that grow into a top-4 role after they are 23. For example Hamonic was playing top-4 at age 20. Brodie, a slow developer was top-4 at age 22. Hanifin was top-4 as a 19 year old.

Andersson turns 23 this week, he is older than Hanifin.

The Flames are giving him every chance to show he is more than a #5 D-man because they have to make a choice on keeping Brodie and/or Hamonic and they need a legit top-6 forward and a real goalie.


Valimaki gave indication that he was the real deal and had a good chance to move Anderssson and Kylington down the depth chart. His being out for a year and not showing and growing has left the Flames with Andersson as the default for a top-4 spot next year.

Right now Kylington and Andersson are performing at replacement level and there is no worry about them having their next contract at much more than Mangiapane got after his hold out.

[GreenLantern2814]

I know the team loves Hamonic, but I see him as exponentially more replaceable than Brodie. I don't think Stone is vastly worse, though I'm sure there are fancy stats to prove me wrong.

Brodie is the 2nd best D we have, and has been for almost his entire tenure. If he had an even passable wrist shot, he'd be an $8M player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are not of lot of NHL legit top-4 d-man that grow into a top-4 role after they are 23. For example Hamonic was playing top-4 at age 20. Brodie, a slow developer was top-4 at age 22. Hanifin was top-4 as a 19 year old.

patently false

Right now Kylington and Andersson are performing at replacement level and there is no worry about them having their next contract at much more than Mangiapane got after his hold out.

patently false

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Right now Kylington and Andersson are performing at replacement level and there is no worry about them having their next contract at much more than Mangiapane got after his hold out.

I know we've been a bit spoiled with our D lately but goddamn, haha!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are not of lot of NHL legit top-4 d-man that grow into a top-4 role after they are 23. .

NSFW!

[SeanCharles]

The real reason we discuss this topic so much is because it seems we have to pick 2 out of the 3 in Hamonic, Brodie and Kylington.

Gio, Andersson, Hanifin and Valimaki are not expected to go anywhere anytime soon so we have 7 guys that we can all argee add value to the team now and in the future.

The reality is that they all are good enough to play regularly and given many of them are young you want them playing every night.

Factor in the need for capspace and another top 6 forward it makes it even more of a dilemma.

I like all of our dmen but know we need to decide who are the 6 we are going roll with as regulars beyond this season.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are not of lot of NHL legit top-4 d-man that grow into a top-4 role after they are 23.
.

Unadulterated pure rubbish of a claim!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/photos/...ns-2019-44.jpg

Minnesota still hadn’t figured out whether he was a F or D yet.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I think the Flames are trying to figure out what they have in Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki.

There are not of lot of NHL legit top-4 d-man that grow into a top-4 role after they are 23. For example Hamonic was playing top-4 at age 20. Brodie, a slow developer was top-4 at age 22. Hanifin was top-4 as a 19 year old.

Andersson turns 23 this week, he is older than Hanifin.

The Flames are giving him every chance to show he is more than a #5 D-man because they have to make a choice on keeping Brodie and/or Hamonic and they need a legit top-6 forward and a real goalie.


Valimaki gave indication that he was the real deal and had a good chance to move Anderssson and Kylington down the depth chart. His being out for a year and not showing and growing has left the Flames with Andersson as the default for a top-4 spot next year.

Right now Kylington and Andersson are performing at replacement level and there is no worry about them having their next contract at much more than Mangiapane got after his hold out.

Good grief.

MOST guys dont become what they end up being until after that age and in some cases, several years after that age.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Good grief.

MOST guys dont become what they end up being until after that age and in some cases, several years after that age.

Totally true. I think it speaks to a lack of hockey knowledge to think opposite of that. Must be all the brainthrusting.

Just off the top of my head, you've got players like Byfuglien, Dumba, Schultz, Petry, Josi, Ekholm, Ellis, Reilly, Sprugeon, etc... hell, even Hedman had a rough first four seasons.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Totally true. I think it speaks to a lack of hockey knowledge to think opposite of that. Must be all the brainthrusting.

Just off the top of my head, you've got players like Byfuglien, Dumba, Schultz, Petry, Josi, Ekholm, Ellis, Reilly, Sprugeon, etc... hell, even Hedman had a rough first four seasons.

Thanks for the list

Dumba 20:20 / game as a 22 year old

Spurgeon 21:36 /game as a 21 year old

Shultz 21:27 / game as a 22 year old

Petry 20:22 /game as a 22 year old

Josi 23:32 / game as a 22 year old

Rielly 20:22 / game as a 20 year old

Hedman 20:51 / game as a freakin' 18 year old.

Buff was a 19 goal forward as a 22 year old.

Burns was a 22:53 /game D man when he was 22.

The only guy that comes to mind , other than Gio was Chara who took a much longer time to develop. Maybe Andersson can go around beating people up for the next 2-3 year while he grows into a top-4 d-man?


---

Ellis was top-4 as a 23 year old mainly because as a 22-year old he had Weber , Josi, Elkholm and Seth Jones ahead of him.

[EVERLAST]

I still think we have a long long way to go with our forwards backchecking . Peter's isn't wrong about our team defense and it starts there.

Gio is way more effective when hes not scrambling all.over and having too bust his ass to get back because some forward is gliding back after a turnover.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The only guy that comes to mind , other than Gio was Chara who took a much longer time to develop. Maybe Andersson can go around beating people up for the next 2-3 year while he grows into a top-4 d-man?


---

Ellis was top-4 as a 23 year old mainly because as a 22-year old he had Weber , Josi, Elkholm and Seth Jones ahead of him.

LOL, ok.

[shadowlord]

Gio might play better with Brodie, but it's early in the season and we are not in must-win-every-game mode.

Now's the time to try out different pairings in the event of injury, or to give Rasmus a bit of training from Gio. We already know Gio-Brodie works, developing Gio-Rasmus or Brodie-Stone pairings as a secondary options will give Peters data and flexibility if needed.

[GioforPM]

Ellis was top-4 as a 23 year old mainly because as a 22-year old he had Weber , Josi, Elkholm and Seth Jones ahead of him.

That's almost like having Gio/Brodie/Hamonic/Hanifin ahead of you.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ellis was top-4 as a 23 year old mainly because as a 22-year old he had Weber , Josi, Elkholm and Seth Jones ahead of him.

That's almost like having Gio/Brodie/Hamonic/Hanifin ahead of you.

Nashville traded Jones for Johansen. What would be the best forward the Flames could get for Hanifin?

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nashville traded Jones for Johansen. What would be the best forward the Flames could get for Hanifin?

I think we could probably play critical thinking bingo with your arguments. Might be able to knock these all off in this thread alone:

[bigrangy]

Not at all often that Ricardo's arguments even make sense but he has the right idea here.


Players aren't finished products at 23 but they are pretty much done projecting in the vast majority of cases.


Andersson has a solid skill package, but his career trajectory will probably have him finish somewhere right in between Stone and Hamonic when you look back on it in ten years. I say probably of course, because there are exceptions.


Kylington is the same. My boundless optimism for him has definitely been tempered, and he's even been playing very well this year. He'll get a couple hundred NHL games under his belt but I don't know if he'll ever become a true impact guy. It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up with fewer career points/games than a guy like Matt Bartkowski, even though it would be personally a huge disappointment. I love the way he plays and he is my favorite Flame.


That being said, on the topic of the Gio-Andersson vs Brodano discussion, the fancies definitely bear out what the +/- is showing, although obviously not so extreme.


Gio is performing vastly better in all the key metrics with Brodie as his partner, with a 9% xGF% relative compared to Gio-Andersson's 0.3%. It's a pretty big difference, but the sample is still small. Last year, Gio-Andersson had better fancies than Brodano, and they also had some vastly inflated percentages that has led fans to believe they were better than they were. Not to mention Andersson's clutch plays vs. Brodie's almost continual ability to be un-clutch.



The truly scary pairing is Hanifin-Hamonic, but they've been better of late and they're starting to come around.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

Does it also affect the Han/Ham pairing, in that they are getting tougher matchup, as they have had some not so good games of late?

Haniham!
Haninic?
Hamofin?