GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It just seems so unfair that a party that only serves the interest of one province has this many seats in parliament.

Canada should have ditched the the constitutional monarchy parliamentary system a long time ago. It's a vestige of colonialism that doesn't function great for a large diverse country.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

The day of the fat, angry, old Conservative leader has to be done by now.

I doubt it, especially with how Scheer performed. Give me a slick talking old white guy over some bumbling newbie.

As support wanes they will lean into it harder than ever.

Remember that Rob Ford begot Doug Ford.

The UCP couldn't suckle from Kenney's moob fast enough.

It's a caricature, sure, but look down south or across the atlantic.

When the sand is draining through your fingers you don't let go, you squeeze harder than ever.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I doubt it, especially with how Scheer performed. Give me a slick

As support wanes they will lean into it harder than ever.

Remember that Rob Ford begot Doug Ford.

The UCP couldn't suckle from Kenney's moob fast enough.

It's a caricature, sure, but look down south or across the atlantic.

When the sand is draining through your fingers you don't let go, you squeeze harder than ever.

Except the path through Trump still leads the Republicans to victory. Here, it is absolutely not a winning path.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I think this is a terrible idea. First, post secondary education is already subsidized, and in fact, it is because of subsidization and ease of obtaining student loans that the cost of tuition is so high. Second, blindly pushing post secondary education on everyone is not going to improve the job situation for young people. Mindlessly sinking 4 years and 5-6 figures into an education that has little value in the job market is a big part of the problem these days, and your idea would only make that worse.

Absolutely. If you're going to suggest that more post-secondary would create "good jobs for young people", you need to support that, because it seems to me that that would simply produce more people with undergraduate degrees serving you coffee at Starbucks.

If you were to suggest transitioning subsidies from post-secondary to vocational training (i.e. making it cheaper and easier to become a plumber / electrician / etc) then we'd be talking.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think they are centre to centre left myself. But even if they encompass centre-right, that doesn't really change the point much. More people in Canada, in fact, a majority, are left of the Conservative Party.

Well, it does. Locke was lamenting the fact that the party with the most votes didn't win the most seats. Your argument was basically, "but what if we combine all these parties into a left bloc and a right bloc?" Well, first, that doesn't actually remotely address Locke's complaint. And second, as noted, I do not buy the fiction that parties are only right or left.

And FWIW, I don't really agree with Locke's argument either. IMO, the last thing we need is already crazy parties like the Greens getting more power, and we certainly do not need the pull to extremes that rep by pop can create. We ended up with an anomaly where the party with the most votes ended up second. That such a result is possible under our system does not necessarily represent a flaw in the system.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But the CPC is further right than everyone else, except the non-entity PPC. And that is trouble for them.

And, non-entities aside, the NDP are further left than everyone else that matters. In a three-way system with three major parties*, someone is going to be right of the rest, someone is going to be left of the rest, and someone is going to be in the centre between them.

There's a reason why Trudeau had a hard on for ranked ballots.

(*Obviously the Bloc makes a mess of things in Quebec)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well, it does. Locke was lamenting the fact that the party with the most votes didn't win the most seats. Your argument was basically, "but what if we combine all these parties into a left bloc and a right bloc?" Well, first, that doesn't actually remotely address Locke's complaint. And second, as noted, I do not buy the fiction that parties are only right or left.

And FWIW, I don't really agree with Locke's argument either. IMO, the last thing we need is already crazy parties like the Greens getting more power, and we certainly do not need the pull to extremes that rep by pop can create. We ended up with an anomaly where the party with the most votes ended up second. That such a result is possible under our system does not necessarily represent a flaw in the system.

OK, I get that point, but you are right, what you end up with is the CPC with maybe a seat more than the Liberals because of the closeness of the vote, and then a bunch of parties who are almost all to the left (depending on what the Bloc wants). Who are they going to work with? Frankly, the situation would be just about the same as right now.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are they farther right? How? Not policy-wise. The CPC has become a party of western sentiment that has a particular election strategy of micro-segmentation and push politics.



They need, in my opinion, to reinvent themselves as a party of big conservative ideas on the major issues that affect Canadians.

I have been debating this a little myself. I think that the CPC is still a very much a moderate right. That said, a lot of their voter base is right wing (sometimes extremely) socially, and economically. Through public discourse ( ie facebook comment sections, pro cpc bumper stickers next to pro trump bumper stickers) that base represents the party very poorly.

The big change is context. Unarguably Canadian voters have become more socially progressive then they were. The who is right or left debate is always relative. In that sense the CPC has been left holding some right wing cards, that say 20 years ago would have been entirely centrist views.

[Jacks]

Every party had a crappy election yet all of the leaders are planning to stay on.

Libs - Lost seats, lost popular vote, shut out of the West mainly because of Trudeau
Cons - Missed the best opportunity to beat a weak Lib leader with an even worse leader and a crappy campaign
NDP - Lost a ton of seats, broke, back to obscurity
Green - May has been leader for 13 years and they are still stuck in Neutral
PPC - Whatever
Bloc - Blah

All of these losers should be stepping down since it's been proven that Canadians don't want any of them and yet all of them are planning to fight the next election.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/and...ader-1.5330762
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sin...ship-1.5330592

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

Except the path through Trump still leads the Republicans to victory. Here, it is absolutely not a winning path.

I sort of agree but it's not a leader obstacle it's a policy obstacle.

I think National Leader Doug Ford out performs National Leader Andrew Scheer, even with all the baggage.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I sort of agree but it's not a leader obstacle it's a policy obstacle.

I think National Leader Doug Ford out performs National Leader Andrew Scheer, even with all the baggage.

One dollar beer for the entire country!!!!!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Every party had a crappy election yet all of the leaders are planning to stay on.

Bloc - Blah

The Bloc - somehow - had a fantastic election. They're clearly the big winners on the night. The big loser is Canada, though most of the population may not appreciate that.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

OK, I get that point, but you are right, what you end up with is the CPC with maybe a seat more than the Liberals because of the closeness of the vote, and then a bunch of parties who are almost all to the left (depending on what the Bloc wants). Who are they going to work with? Frankly, the situation would be just about the same as right now.

Idealistically, the Liberals would work with either side on a case by case basis. That, however, ignores the obviously increasing partisanship we've endured over the last couple decades.

One way I could look at that is that the Liberals would find it easier to work with the NDP because they aren't actually a threat. The NDP pretty much just exist for the most part. Other than the lows of the 90s and the high of 2011, they are good for 15-20% of the vote and will pretty much never actually challenge for control of government. If the Liberals worked with the Conservatives quite a bit, Trudeau runs the risk of having people ask 'why not just vote Conservative next time?'.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The Bloc - somehow - had a fantastic election. They're clearly the big winners on the night. The big loser is Canada, though most of the population may not appreciate that.

Just gonna pat myself on the back, I was predicting they would have a good election in September. With that out of the way, Quebec is very good at getting what they want, and when no party presents themselves as capable, they are happy to pull out the ol protest vote. It is a card that Alberta can't (hasn't played).

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The Bloc - somehow - had a fantastic election. They're clearly the big winners on the night. The big loser is Canada, though most of the population may not appreciate that.

And would have been good for Canada?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I think it's always depended who is in charge for whether they take to the right or left. Id definitely call them center-left at this point.

I think they campaigned centre left but actually governed more to the right. Honestly I think a lot of their economic policies are not so far off the old PC approach in Alberta, if people had got past their emotional reaction to the brand/Trudeau and elected 10-15 Liberal MPs I think Alberta would be holding the levers of power given Quebec backed away from the Libs and the party isn't that far off being aligned with Alberta interests, energy east is dead but they're going to push through TM and basically saved it. I know a lot of folks don't like the new approval process (which is fair) but I think that's an uphill slog for any party in the current environment. Even if you dream of separation all the FN groups out there and the sway they hold these days is going to make pipeline approvals really tough.

If Alberta wants in to the government, most Canadians want to see a more middle of the road approach and it's been said a lot but I think aside from taking a more proactive role inside the liberal party if the Conservatives were still PCs and had they'd be killing it right now as well. It just feels like a party where the inmates are running the asylum - outside of Alberta everybody's crazy loudmouth drunk uncle/aunt who likes to rant about "the government" is basically their mascot at this point. Nobody wants to hang around that guy - it's basically like spending a day on W. Brett Wilson and Theo Fleury's twitter feeds in real life.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Canada is not a left-right dichotomy. It's left-centre-right. The LPC, in the centre, takes cues from both its left and their right. And it gains and loses support to and from both directions.

The narrative that Canadian politics is the CPC on the right vs. everyone else on the left is simply false.

Ridiculous.. the Trudeau Liberals are radically left. Not even close to centre.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

One dollar beer for the entire country!!!!!

You could lock in 8-10% of the vote with that single policy.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by -TC-

Ridiculous.. the Trudeau Liberals are radically left. Not even close to centre.

lol

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I have been debating this a little myself. I think that the CPC is still a very much a moderate right. That said, a lot of their voter base is right wing (sometimes extremely) socially, and economically. Through public discourse ( ie facebook comment sections, pro cpc bumper stickers next to pro trump bumper stickers) that base represents the party very poorly.

The big change is context. Unarguably Canadian voters have become more socially progressive then they were. The who is right or left debate is always relative. In that sense the CPC has been left holding some right wing cards, that say 20 years ago would have been entirely centrist views.

I think your first point is so bang on. Ranty angry people and media outlets like Rebel are defining their brand right now and killing their potential for growth.


Unless something changes this is going to be at least a 3 year minority and I'd bet Trudeau will step aside after 2 given the personal attacks and dwindling popularity. If the Liberals replace him with a fresh likeable face even if it's an empty suit the Cons are in tough unless they move to the centre.