GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In other words, the Liberals are willing to F over Alberta for partisan political gain out east and in BC.

Tell me again why they deserve even a single vote in this province?

Welcome to politics my friend. Harper campaigned on changing Equalization to help Alberta but the second he got a chance at power he immediately shelved it because it would kill him in Quebec.

From what the experts in this thread said - the appearance at the court would very likely have made no difference in the process so why lose political points over it.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In other words, the Liberals are willing to F over Alberta for partisan political gain out east and in BC.

Tell me again why they deserve even a single vote in this province?

Huh? No - that just makes sense. Why get in an unnecessary mudslinging match with aboriginal Canadians during a leave to appeal in an election? If it's gonna cost you political capital, would make more sense to save it for the actual appeal. Could have sapped the federal government's ability where it actually matters.

Plus - I must admit I have doubts about what evidence the government actually could have produced in this hearing. Usually the leave to appeal is based on points of law and not much evidence is being produced.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Welcome to politics my friend. Harper campaigned on changing Equalization to help Alberta but the second he got a chance at power he immediatly shelved it because it would kill him in Quebec.

From what the experts in this thread said - the appearance at the court would very likely have made no difference in the process so why lose politcal points over it.

Also the FN appeal hasn't actually stopped work on TMX. The FCA has not granted an injunction while the appeal is happening.

It's possible that the government of Canada is extremely certain of their win, such that had they presented their evidence, the FCA would have just thrown the case out. At that point, the headlines of the FN throwing a hissy fit would have created huge talking points, and we might have had an even worse case scenario (a strong NDP or Green rather than near-status quo).

It's definitely politics, but in this particular case, I think it helped us.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If I was running the Conservatives federally I would make this the last election where you don't have a real climate change policy. That might work with Alberta/Saskatchewan but it won't play in the big population centres in Ontario/Quebec.

I think they misread that Doug Ford won in Ontario because people just wanted the Liberals out, not because of his anti-carbon tax/climate plan rhetoric.

Climate change is going to quickly become another abortion/gay marriage issue where the Conservatives will need to buy in and at least give some semblance of plan.

I visited Toronto recently, while the climate strike was going on. School was closed to have kids out with signs all over the city, with all cars honking. People in cities are extremely passionate about climate change, and whether rightly or wrongly, oil has been the easy target.

Ontario as a province also has a tendency to vote out parties as soon as they are unpopular and are very reactionary. From PC Davis / Miller to Liberals under Petterson to NDP Bob Ray, to PC Harris, to Liberal McGuinty / Wynne to PC Doug Ford.

Conservatives need to wake up and drop anything even remotely looking like morality and religious social ideas. Liberals of today are far more left than Chretien's Liberals, but the Conservative went further right with Scheer. Conservatives need to back to the Harper center right, and even go a bit more left than they may be used to. I am definitely fiscally conservative, but I cannot stand the social side of the party.

Climate change should not be about destroying Canada's economy and industries without real alternatives (that both the NDP and Green party want to do), but there are still things that can be done. Conservative should jump on this and build a plan and not just dismiss the whole premise of climate change (and I have my views on it), it's just not a winning strategy in today's environment.

[PepsiFree]

The CPC party have basically embodied the Principal Skinner meme over the last four years.

CPC losing in 2015: Are we out of touch?
CPC preparing for 2019: No, it's Canadians who are wrong!

Such an easy opportunity to lead this country, totally bungled. They know prairie support is basically locked in but couldn't figure out how to contruct policies that actually appeal to the majority without alienating them with others (hint: it's a mix of fiscally conservative and socially progressive policies) and pick a leader that wasn't a total milk-guzzling con-bot that constantly looks like they're practicing a human smile.

The social policies don't even have to be overly progressive! Even a "we're happy with where Canada is today and look forward to continuing our progress" would've been 1000x better than "the law is the law I guess, we don't agree with them but we won't change them." Like, how hard is it to even pretend you're happy to support socially things most Canadians support, instead of sounding like Dad is making you?

Albertans voted in a guy who lived in mom's basement because he was Conservative. We've got your back no matter what. You can make a platform that supports our natural resource sector without alienating huge chunks of Canada with other weirdo policies. Just figure it out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

If they were willing to F over Alberta for political gain, why not just cancel the pipeline the first time it got to them for approval? They had no problem gladly rejecting Northern Gateway. Or the second time they had to approve it? Or not buy it? There's about 20 Occam razor's pointing to the Liberals approving and saying they are for the pipeline that they may have indeed approve of the pipeline.

Also, what would have happened with Trudeau's clandestine plot if he approved the pipeline and the Federal Court of Appeal didn't rule against it the first time. Surely even the craziest of conspiracy theorists couldn't believe Trudeau somehow knew that consultation done prior to him being Prime Minister ruled on by judges appointed by Harper and previous prime ministers would be considered inadequate.

"Haha" *evil sneer* "I will destroy Trans Mountain by approving it and letting the courts destroy it!"

"The courts affirmed the approval of it? Oh ####."

Finally, to what end is he doing this dog and pony show?

He was getting grilled by the climate change activists leading to a rise in the Green party vote. It was hurting his reconciliation tour. More importantly the implication of forcing a pipeline down BC's throat was looked on as a direct attack by the Bloc which helped their rise. And of course it was a wedge issue in BC that didn't help their cause.

But I guess they had to lose all that support so they could keep Alberta red...oh wait.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In other words, the Liberals are willing to F over Alberta for partisan political gain out east and in BC.

Tell me again why they deserve even a single vote in this province?

At some point, the CPC is going to have revisit the question as to whether they want to be a second coming of the Reform Party (essentially an Albertan Bloc) or they want to govern nationally.

[transplant99]

Scott Moe setting the seeds for a referendum to open equalization talks?

I suspect Jason Kenney will say much the same thing this afternoon in his presser.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1186671136542736384

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My biggest gripe is that no one really voted on SNC lavelin, which was truly egregious and should have turned a LPC minority into a CPC minority. It didn't matter. The entire loss distribution was either reversion to the mean (Atlantic Canada) or resource policy (Western Canada) related. The Liberals lost one seat due to SNC - in Vancouver.

Is there data on this? That is, is there someone who compiled voting priorities and determined that it didn't matter? I'd love to see it if so.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by peter12

At some point, the CPC is going to have revisit the question as to whether they want to be a second coming of the Reform Party (essentially an Albertan Bloc) or they want to govern nationally.

Somewhat ironically, the Bloc resurgence means that if somehow there was a strong Liberal caucus from the prairies, it would be a prime moment for shifting the balance of power in the party west.

This is the only other party who supports pipelines at all. All but impossible with a guy whose name is Trudeau leading it, but would be nice to have a non-homogenous voting public in Alberta. Maybe that's Notley's next calling. Anyone know if she speaks French?

[peter12]

Albertans should be pretty happy that the Green vote fizzled (as it always does because they aren't a serious party) and that the NDP had a pretty mediocre showing as well, especially in areas where you would think that anti-pipeline sentiment would be high. Burnaby North - a riding at the heart of TMX opposition - retained its LPC MP last night in what was said to be a tight race against Svend Robinson.



This is all good news for Albertans worried about TMX getting built.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The article in the tweet does at least IMO point out why the rest of Canada wonders why Alberta is so loyal to the Conservatives. They don't offer many plans (that would ever actually get through the courts) to actually fix the issues that cause the divide, they just agree with the fact you're being screwed.

Repealing Bills C-48 and C-69 would be a good start. Defending TMX in court would be a good start.

[CaptainYooh]

Perhaps, the only way to counterbalance Eastern dominance on Canadian politics is through amalgamation of provinces. Amalgamate with Saskatchewan, NWT and Yukon. Isolate BC from access to the rest of Canada. Then either get a fair treatment or separate.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by peter12

Albertans should be pretty happy that the Green vote fizzled (as it always does because they aren't a serious party) and that the NDP had a pretty mediocre showing as well, especially in areas where you would think that anti-pipeline sentiment would be high. Burnaby North - a riding at the heart of TMX opposition - retained its LPC MP last night in what was said to be a tight race against Svend Robinson.



This is all good news for Albertans worried about TMX getting built.

But that's the thing....actual Canadians are overall in FAVOR of building pipelines. The people that are elected are expected to represent the views of those who put the there.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...reid-1.5282430

Its the politicians on the left that have made it a wedge issue, but no one ever talks about it in those terms.

Its why the system of governance in this country no longer works, and really hasn't for many years.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Perhaps, the only way to counterbalance Eastern dominance on Canadian politics is through amalgamation of provinces. Amalgamate with Saskatchewan, NWT and Yukon. Isolate BC from access to the rest of Canada. Then either get a fair treatment or separate.

Rupert's Land 2.0??

[peter12]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But that's the thing....actual Canadians are overall in FAVOR of building pipelines. The people that are elected are expected to represent the views of those who put the there.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...reid-1.5282430

Its the politicians on the left that have made it a wedge issue, but no one ever talks about it in those terms.

Its why the system of governance in this country no longer works, and really hasn't for many years.

You're kind of making my point for me. This election was maybe not a resounding shift in favour of pipelines, but definitely signals an electorate willing to make trade-offs.

[pepper24]

Best way for Conservatives to rebound is to get there act together and move away from the Trump banter.

A lot of non-prairie voters didn't want to vote for Trudeau but think Conservatives are too much like Trump and American politics.

Keep right of center on fiscal issues like taxes, size of government etc but get back to the center on social issues like gay rights, abortion, immigration etc.

[CaptainYooh]

I just added the total number of all votes in Yukon, NWT and Nunavut and the sum was smaller than the number of votes in my riding. Puts things in perspective, really.

[PepsiFree]

Can there be some hope for a renewed look at electoral reform and a shift to proportional representation at this point?

Maybe it's just wishful thinking. But our current system does not work for Canada today.

[Red]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Can there be some hope for a renewed look at electoral reform and a shift to proportional representation at this point?

Maybe it's just wishful thinking. But our current system does not work for Canada today.

Didn't seem like an issue during the decade of Harper's government.