GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

or go even harder right, socially regressive and anti-intellectual, it worked down south.

Yes, maybe a new snappy name as well, something with people's in it and maybe Canada so it's clear its a people party of Canada, that might work

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

My interpretation that the government didn't show up to mount a defense?

I speculated on the reasons why they didn't fight the appeals, but the Liberals not attending and choosing to allow the appeals to continue uncontested isn't interpretation or speculation. The judge even said the government could have strong evidence and legal arguments to show that consultation was adequate, but it was withheld.

Yeah, clearly I meant that you inserted your interpretation of the feds not preventing the appeal from continuing. Makes more sense for the feds to avoid a mudslinging match about adequate consultation at the leave to appeal rather than the actual appeal - especially during an election.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

My interpretation that the government didn't show up to mount a defense?

I speculated on the reasons why they didn't fight the appeals, but the Liberals not attending and choosing to allow the appeals to continue uncontested isn't interpretation or speculation. The judge even said the government could have strong evidence and legal arguments to show that consultation was adequate, but it was withheld.

Leave to appeal isn't the appeal. Like was said, it's granted almost every time. The test is essentially (a) is there an arguable case to appeal; (b) is it an issue of importance; and (c) is there dire emergency which makes the delay caused by an appeal untenable.

So lots of times a litigant will save their fire for the actual appeal and not oppose the leave application. Arguably the province should have just consented to move the appeal forward sooner.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Declared the Pipeline in the national interest, that would have probably satisfied Kinder to hang on instead of throwing up their arms and selling the thing. Kinder was looking for signs that the Government was committed to the pipeline, instead Trudeau ignored them and waffled and kept quiet and Kinder pulled.

Appealing the FAC decision to the SCC which would have nailed down the concepts of consultation and nailed down other issues.

Shown up at hearings.

Add on, don't show up and have a grinning press conference with a BC Government while handing over a big novelty check. The government had a right to withhold infrastructure transfers for example.

And if you think any of that would have sped up the process, I have a bridge to sell you.

[woob]

Can the people continuously painting Slava liberal red please let it go already? People can vote one way but still feel like a political party they didn't vote for are doing good things. Try and be a respectful humans to each other despite your differing political views. And the comments on his business/clients/etc. are just garbage. Smarten up.

[Ozy_Flame]

Just a heads up, good discussion with Ryan Jespersen (630 CHED in Edmonton)) and Danielle Smith (CHQR in Calgary). I don't normally listen to Smith but they're co-broadcasting today and it makes for good listening given Jespersen's progressive lean and Smith's conservative lean. Of course that's if you want more election and fallout coverage that you might not have got enough of the last forty days

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Going into an election with reconciliation as a talking point and actively opposing First Nations in the court regarding not just proper consultation but trying to prevent them from discussing the lack of proper consultation would have been seen as hugely hypocritical.

I hate to feed into the conspiracy theories, because generally I agree with you, but they were perfectly happy to take the negative PR that came with "taking FN kids to court." Regardless of whether you agree with that move or not, it's hard to say that the Liberals were really pushing the reconciliation card this election.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Declared the Pipeline in the national interest, that would have probably satisfied Kinder to hang on instead of throwing up their arms and selling the thing. Kinder was looking for signs that the Government was committed to the pipeline, instead Trudeau ignored them and waffled and kept quiet and Kinder pulled.



Appealing the FAC decision to the SCC which would have nailed down the concepts of consultation and nailed down other issues.


Shown up at hearings.


Add on, don't show up and have a grinning press conference with a BC Government while handing over a big novelty check. The government had a right to withhold infrastructure transfers for example.

Kinder was looking for a way out. Unless National Interest declarations would have sped things along and guaranteed success KM was out. And that declaration would have, IMO just led to more and different court challenges. I think BC and the FN knew this and played their hand accordingly.

Then the government bought the friggin thing to keep it going. IMO that shows at least some commitment.

As for the SCC, you can't just appeal decisions to the SCC. You need leave to appeal. They may have gotten it. But leave applications take about 6 months anyway. Then the appeal is another year away. There are very few ways to expedite matters at the SCC. They have a shorter sitting schedule and a full docket every time. I know all this because I clerked there.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Kinder was looking for a way out. Unless National Interest declarations would have sped things along and guaranteed success KM was out. And that declaration would have, IMO just led to more and different court challenges. I think BC and the FN knew this and played their hand accordingly.

Then the government bought the friggin thing to keep it going. IMO that shows at least some commitment.

As for the SCC, you can't just appeal decisions to the SCC. You need leave to appeal. They may have gotten it. But leave applications take about 6 months anyway. Then the appeal is another year away. There are very few ways to expedite matters at the SCC. They have a shorter sitting schedule and a full docket every time. I know all this because I clerked there.

Humble-brag alert!

Haha - no, that's actually pretty cool.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1186681943884210177

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Humble-brag alert!

Haha - no, that's actually pretty cool.

That was more just a "brag" than a "humble-brag" IMO.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by woob

Can the people continuously painting Slava liberal red please let it go already? People can vote one way but still feel like a political party they didn't vote for are doing good things. Try and be a respectful humans to each other despite your differing political views. And the comments on his business/clients/etc. are just garbage. Smarten up.

Could not agree more.

EVERYONE is allowed to vote as they wish regardless of what they do for a living or what religion they are or any other truly non-factor.

[woob]

Uh oh, transplant and I agreed on something. What does that mean??

[GullFoss]

I for one am quite content with the outcome.

1) a weakened NDP/Green vote suggests consensus for a balanced approach to climate change

2) If you only look at policy, the liberals had some big wins (tax and redistribution policy) and some big losses (mostly related to the energy bills and tmx pipeline). The resource file drove Western alienation, which is a big misstep. That suggests enough for a second term, although in a minority capacity.

3) My biggest gripe is that no one really voted on SNC lavelin, which was truly egregious and should have turned a LPC minority into a CPC minority. It didn't matter. The entire loss distribution was either reversion to the mean (Atlantic Canada) or resource policy (Western Canada) related. The Liberals lost one seat due to SNC - in Vancouver.

4) the conservatives didn't make sufficient inroads into ON. That cost them the election. You have to look at the GTA as it's own province and the CPC maybe won 5 of 60 seats. It's not good enough. The CPC needs a broader strategy that focuses on the needs of the GTA. In my view that focus has to be on one of three things:
- good jobs for young people
- quality of life in GTA
- environment

I think the first one - good jobs for young people - is the biggest one the CPC can focus on. And to me that starts with a massive increase in subsidized cross country post-secondary education. Providing hope and opportunity for those in rural areas, mainland Vancouver and the GTA. It's a winning policy. Everyone who has kids can see that coming out of university with $100k+ in debt is a true hardship for middle class families, but you need a post-secondary education to get ahead these days

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by woob

Uh oh, transplant and I agreed on something. What does that mean??

I think it's one of the few things all Canadians can agree on without debate - vote for anyone you want and from any background. This must be protected and respected.

If anyone gets upset over the conflicting platforms, hopefully the understood and agreed-upon democracy basics can at least bring a bit of solace.

[PeteMoss]

If I was running the Conservatives federally I would make this the last election where you don't have a real climate change policy. That might work with Alberta/Saskatchewan but it won't play in the big population centres in Ontario/Quebec.

I think they misread that Doug Ford won in Ontario because people just wanted the Liberals out, not because of his anti-carbon tax/climate plan rhetoric.

Climate change is going to quickly become another abortion/gay marriage issue where the Conservatives will need to buy in and at least give some semblance of plan.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Really frustrating to see a lot of this sentiment from the media today

https://twitter.com/user/status/1186504190585163781

The idea that Alberta voted against their best interests by overwhelmingly voting Conservative, rather than the party that introduced bills C-69 and C-48.

That we're just angry because the world is passing us by.

People wonder why Albertans are frustrated. Just take a loot at the replies to that tweet to get an idea of what the rest of the country thinks of us.

The article in the tweet does at least IMO point out why the rest of Canada wonders why Alberta is so loyal to the Conservatives. They don't offer many plans (that would ever actually get through the courts) to actually fix the issues that cause the divide, they just agree with the fact you're being screwed.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

4) the conservatives didn't make sufficient inroads into ON. That cost them the election. You have to look at the GTA as it's own province and the CPC maybe won 5 of 60 seats. It's not good enough. The CPC needs a broader strategy that focuses on the needs of the GTA. In my view that focus has to be on one of three things:
- good jobs for young people
- quality of life in GTA
- environment

I think the first one - good jobs for young people - is the biggest one the CPC can focus on. And to me that starts with a massive increase in subsidized cross country post-secondary education. Providing hope and opportunity for those in rural areas, mainland Vancouver and the GTA. It's a winning policy. Everyone who has kids can see that coming out of university with $100k+ in debt is a true hardship for middle class families, but you need a post-secondary education to get ahead these days

I do think the Ontario Provincial election outcome hurt the CPC in Ontario.

Even though they tried hard to ensure there was no association between Scheer and Ford it didn't matter. Ford has done been so hated with his cuts to education and health care in Ontario that they weren't going to vote CPC.

The other big thing is that the CPC needs to start to lean more to the center on social issues while remaining right on economic issues.

They are not going to be able to win votes in Ontario and BC with people thinking they are going to restrict LGBTQ rights, or are going to completely remove any type of environmental protection measures.

There is no reason why investment and support for pipelines in Canada and a Carbon Tax need to be mutually exclusive. There is space to have both a carbon tax, while also supporting and investing in safe ways to transport Oil out of Alberta.

The vote compass chart had the CPC on the same level as the PPC on the Social Conservative scale...that's just not going to be successful with the younger voters.

[Regorium]

At some point the CPC will have to realize that "LIBERAL JOB-KILLING CARBON TAX" is literally a meme.

Their plan with regards to shipping gas to China and reducing global emissions actually quite good, and I would've made that the main climate change plank rather than getting rid of the carbon tax. I think there are strong arguments to be made with regards to global emissions, global energy demand and how Canada fits into that puzzle.

Perhaps a bit more investment into coal phase out and EV/EV infrastructure subsidies would also help the urban professional voter.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

At... The appeal itself? Obviously?

This was probably just a political move calculated to avoid news coverage about how the Liberal Government was fighting with first nations groups before the election, though.

In other words, the Liberals are willing to F over Alberta for partisan political gain out east and in BC.

Tell me again why they deserve even a single vote in this province?