[PGT] Flames 1 Sharks 3. Flames display "Troy Brouwer vibes"

[Jeff Lebowski]

If that is the process : how you play, results will follow. Then CGY is going in right direction. They have to stick with it.

These could be good lessons in terms of how hard it is to win consistently.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Players are never extended prior to a trade, you would be trading for a rental Hall with the hopes to re-sign him.

IMO at that point Hall is hitting Free Agency to see what he can get.

Mark Stone signed his extension virtually upon arrival in Vegas. That is a player who was in fact traded with an extension in place.


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[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If that is the process : how you play, results will follow. Then CGY is going in right direction. They have to stick with it.

These could be good lessons in terms of how hard it is to win consistently.

How you play all starts with how you practice.

IMO that s what Peters was referencing the other day when he stated the club needs to "get more of a stronger work ethic" or however he phrased it.

That starts with the leadership in the room and then translates to the coaches on the ice.

Hopefully it starts tomorrow as I am guessing today is a day off.

It is early in the season and all that stuff, no question.

However, bad habits are something that can be a season long issue unless nipped in the bud early in the year. Its that time right now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

...However, bad habits are something that can be a season long issue unless nipped in the bud early in the year. Its that time right now.

Yes, this. I thought through the first five games that the team did not work hard enough. Not at all. Last night looked like a step in the right direction toward correcting that problem. I thought the team worked last night for the first time all season. They sagged later in the third, but I think some of that is also the fatigue of three games in four nights.


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[Patek23]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Janko was already traded if Kadri would have waived...he would not clear

Bennett is the most valuable and could fetch more than a 3rd

Janko was traded straight up for Kadri? Lol way to leave some major pieces out LOLOL we don’t even know what the full deal was. Jankowski was likely just a throw in to balance out salary levels because neither team could take on much more salary.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes, this. I thought through the first five games that the team did not work hard enough. Not at all. Last night looked like a step in the right direction toward correcting that problem. I thought the team worked last night for the first time all season. They sagged later in the third, but I think some of that is also the fatigue of three games in four nights.


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The DAL game was an example of great effort or work rate, IMO. They just have to want to work like that every time out. DAL game was good, VGK game no good, SJS game good.

That's not consistent obviously. And more to the point I don't really think it's hard work or 'sweat equity' that is the issue. NHL players are all burning calories - or working hard just because the pace of the games are so high. The issue for CGY, IMO - and I could be wrong - is the 'want to' or emotional element.

Peters talked about wanting to get to pucks first, taking hits to make plays etc. These are the little things that need to be done. Lucic commented on cheating for offense after VGK game. This tells me the players are not dialed in but thinking too far ahead.

These guys are smart. They know what their game looks like when they're clicking, when they play the right way. They have to commit to team play and not have people trying to be the hero and do it all themselves.

Lindholm's goal is great example: face off win, traffic allowed to develop, smart point shot through towards net, Lindholm and Monahan timed it right.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Janko was traded straight up for Kadri? Lol way to leave some major pieces out LOLOL we don’t even know what the full deal was. Jankowski was likely just a throw in to balance out salary levels because neither team could take on much more salary.

IIRC it was Brodie/Jankowski for Kadri/Brown

[Patek23]

And the trade wound up being Barrie 50 percent retained and Kerfoot for Kadri and Rosen.

I’m obviously no big fan of Brodie but I don’t think anybody on other teams would ever put Brodie ahead of Barrie. So I’d heavily wager we were sending picks back as we are also a cap choked team if we weren’t retaining Brodie. Jankowski either way was literally a throw in for that deal. The poster suggesting Jankowski was getting traded for Kadri as if that even remotely described the deal that almost took place must be smoking something LOL

[jlh2640]

You can’t win every game. Not the worst start. But other than the Vegas game. They could’ve won them all. Even if they didn’t deserve it. Let’s see how the next 10 games go. But they need more from the bottom 7 players/forwards on the roster.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by transplant99

IIRC it was Brodie/Jankowski for Kadri/Brown

Frolik was going to Jersey as well

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Frolik was going to Jersey as well

Never heard that at all.

The only deal Im aware of that was confirmed was the deadline debacle to Minnesota.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

And the trade wound up being Barrie 50 percent retained and Kerfoot for Kadri and Rosen.

I’m obviously no big fan of Brodie but I don’t think anybody on other teams would ever put Brodie ahead of Barrie. So I’d heavily wager we were sending picks back as we are also a cap choked team if we weren’t retaining Brodie. Jankowski either way was literally a throw in for that deal. The poster suggesting Jankowski was getting traded for Kadri as if that even remotely described the deal that almost took place must be smoking something LOL

No. The poster is countering your suggestion that Jankowski would clear waivers. I think it's a good bet that a 25-year old centre with size who has scored at a 15-goal clip in his only two NHL seasons would be a little more than a "throw in" in a trade.

Jankowski has value. He sure as hell is not showing it right now, but he has absolutely demonstrated that he is better than a replacement level player.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Never heard that at all.

The only deal Im aware of that was confirmed was the deadline debacle to Minnesota.

I think it was LeBrun who speculated very early in the offseason that Frolik to the Devils for a mid or late pick was in the works but nothing imminent. I think Jersey quickly changed direction and that deal fell off the table after the first 10 days of free agency.

With Zucker, not much confirmation, just 'believed to be' Frolik + 1st. Did that include salary retention, conditions on the pick etc, who knows.

The rumour about the Flames/Toronto deal is that there was a third team involved, I"m guessing Ottawa, to facilitate the cap exchange. Toronto and Ottawa would later go on to do a deal for Ceci/Zeitsev.

Flames get: Kadri
Leafs get: Brodie at 50% retained
Team A get: Janko, Something else

If it was Ottawa I wonder if the Flames were again trying to offload Neal and when that fell through they were out of options and Holland forced Tre's hand on Lucic.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. The poster is countering your suggestion that Jankowski would clear waivers. I think it's a good bet that a 25-year old centre with size who has scored at a 15-goal clip in his only two NHL seasons would be a little more than a "throw in" in a trade.

Jankowski has value. He sure as hell is not showing it right now, but he has absolutely demonstrated that he is better than a replacement level player.

He’s a victim of salary. He’s a 4th liner or worse on almost every team. But most teams would rather have someone who makes 600k less then his 1.6 mil to be in the role he is. If Jankowski was offered up on the block I don’t think he would get any bites. And I would bet you money he would clear waivers if sent down for whatever reason this season. No team is looking for a 1.6 mil 4th liner.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

He’s a victim of salary. He’s a 4th liner or worse on almost every team. But most teams would rather have someone who makes 600k less then his 1.6 mil to be in the role he is

I wish people would stop saying such outlandishly hyperbolic things like this. We are lazer-focused on our favourite team, and this tends to badly cloud our judgement of everyone else. Jankowski would play on pretty much every team in the Leauge. He is at worst a slightly below average fourth liner at the moment, but given his pedigree, his individual skills, his results from the past two seasons I am quite certain that even at his salary there are multiple teams that would take a chance on him. Of course, at the beginning of the year when most teams are healthy or adjusting to the season these sorts of deals will end not to happen.

If Jankowski was offered up on the block I don’t think he would get any bites. And I would bet you money he would clear waivers if sent down for whatever reason this season. No team is looking for a 1.6 mil 4th liner.

At this time of the year? That would be somewhat unsurprising, but that is not an indictment of Jankowski, nor the Flames depth.

Let’s see how this plays out a bit before pontificating about Jankowski’s and Ryan’s apparent uselessness, or MIkael Backlund’s supposed ceiling as an “okay third line centre.”


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[bubbsy]

Is anyone else shocked and annoyed that the names in the kadri trade were leaked?

I feel like all the parts of a trade that doesn't happen aren't usually made public.

Feel bad for the players. Can't imagine this has helped Jankowski's confidence coming into a new season.

[Harry Lime]

Brodie/Jankowski was plan A for the Leafs, so they put more or equal value on that tandem than Kerfoot/Barrie, which was plan B. I understand that Brodie is a bit of a whipping boy here, and Janko has had a brutal first few games, but they are not ECHL calibre players all of the sudden.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I wish people would stop saying such outlandishly hyperbolic things like this. We are hyper-focused on our favourite team, and this tends to badly cloud our judgement of everyone else. Jankowski would play on pretty much every team in the Leauge. He is at worst a slightly below average fourth liner at the moment, but given his pedigree, his individual skills, his results from the past two seasons I am quite certain that even at his salary there are multiple teams that would take a chance on him. Of course, at the beginning of the year when most teams are healthy or adjusting to the season these sorts of deals will end not to happen.

[/I]
At this time of the year? That would be somewhat unsurprising, but that is not an indictment of Jankowski, nor the Flames depth.

Let’s see how this plays out a bit before pontificating about Jankowski’s and Ryan’s apparent uselessness, or MIkael Backlund’s supposed ceiling as an “okay third line centre.”


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Hey those are all your opinions and I respectfully disagree. But that last part I’ve never said. Although I assume your speaking more too everyone in this thread that’s down on the team rather then my specific post, but since you quoted my post I thought I should address it.

If you ask me our top 4 is elite. I don’t necessarily think they’re the best as a sum of all parts and the way they compliment each other. And that is a totally diff conversation to have altogether. But individually I would consider each player elite. Backlund is not elite. He is however a more then adequate 2nd line Center. Is there players I’d rather have? Of course. But Backlund is a 2nd liner on our team and at least half the other teams in the league. So you saying that doesn’t tie into any of the point I’m trying to make.

I’ve followed the Flames since 96 as a die hard fan. Watched through many tough years and I’m certainly in no panic. But also having been a member of this board for 17 years now I’ve learned that we as a board over value our players. I’ve learned to err on the side of caution and I really do feel my valuations of what players would net in trades is pretty close to bang on. Maybe certain pieces would excel on other teams in the right situations, but I addressed that our “coveted depth” is certainly not coveted. I don’t think we’re getting any calls about our bottom 6 this year or last and considering that many of these guys have already hit their ceilings that’s concerning. We’re no envy of the league like many posters clamoured at the beginning of the season talking about being the deepest we’ve been in years (and by no means am I saying you were one of those. I didn’t go back to look if you were or weren’t).

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Is anyone else shocked and annoyed that the names in the kadri trade were leaked?

I feel like all the parts of a trade that doesn't happen aren't usually made public.

Feel bad for the players. Can't imagine this has helped Jankowski's confidence coming into a new season.

It’s a business. If anything it should of lit a fire under his ass. If you heard your company was going to lay you off and then they didn’t, would you mail it in afterwards? or would you bust your ass so it didn’t come close again.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Hey those are all your opinions and I respectfully disagree. But that last part I’ve never said. Although I assume your speaking more too everyone in this thread that’s down on the team rather then my specific post, but since you quoted my post I thought I should address it.

Yes, my mistake. This was claimed by someone else in this thread.

If you ask me our top 4 is elite. I don’t necessarily think they’re the best as a sum of all parts and the way they compliment each other. And that is a totally diff conversation to have altogether. But individually I would consider each player elite. Backlund is not elite. He is however a more then adequate 2nd line Center. Is there players I’d rather have? Of course. But Backlund is a 2nd liner on our team and at least half the other teams in the league. So you saying that doesn’t tie into any of the point I’m trying to make.

I think we generally agree, although I probably would rank Backlund higher than you do.

I’ve followed the Flames since 96 as a die hard fan. Watched through many tough years and I’m certainly in no panic. But also having been a member of this board for 17 years now I’ve learned that we as a board over value our players. I’ve learned to err on the side of caution and I really do feel my valuations of what players would net in trades is pretty close to bang on. Maybe certain pieces would excel on other teams in the right situations, but I addressed that our “coveted depth” is certainly not coveted. I don’t think we’re getting any calls about our bottom 6 this year or last and considering that many of these guys have already hit their ceilings that’s concerning. We’re no envy of the league like many posters clamoured at the beginning of the season talking about being the deepest we’ve been in years (and by no means am I saying you were one of those. I didn’t go back to look if you were or weren’t).

And I think you are dead wrong about this. In most pundits’s and observers’s rankings of the Flames forward depth, they place consistently high. I tend to think the bottom six is about average, and that their shortcomings are more than anything a product of how incredibly difficult it is to construct an NHL team under severe cap constraints. In short, ALL teams suffer from exactly the same problem. I would warrant for most teams whose bottom six is better than Calgary’s they suffer from other holes where the Flames are very strong—such as in their top six or on defense.

The reason why the Flames are not fielding calls for their bottom five or six forwards is not because these players are so poor compared to their counterparts on other teams; it’s because every team in the NHL has an abundance of these same types of players. If Treliving is presently hitting the phones and looking to add players, do you know which players he is not interested in acquiring? OTHER TEAMS’S BOTTOM SIX PLAYERS.

So, no. Maybe “panic” is the wrong word to describe how your posts read. I would say instead that they look more to me like pessimistic exaggerations based on the team’s current performance. The difference between you and me is probably that I think most of the Flames forwards have a lot more to give. You seem to think that they have hit their limit.


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