Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion - Page 162 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Yes 2.75 million cap hit, which is still better than the $6 million of dead space Lucic will take up for 4 seasons.

I was shocked that a good team wanted Lucic. What are the odds that another good team will want Lucic is he doesn't show any signs of life? Will Lucic waive his NMC to go a a team like Ottawa?

LTIR seems unlikely given that Lucic has been healthy as a horse.

He might be useful in the playoffs. Seems unlikely to me given that the regular season is too fast paced for him at this point and the playoffs are even faster. Its not even a skating thing. He has never been fast. His hands are just completely gone. Reminds me of Jeff Freisen or Gomez who just lost their hands completely around 30.

It shouldn't even matter to Flames fans what Neal does in Edmonton. They should just look at whether Lucic is bringing more than Neal did.

Through Neal's first 4 games with the Flames he had 2 points, was -2? and had 9 shots on net.
Lucic is zero points, -2 and one shot on net.

It's early and Lucic may turn it around, but the Oilers gave him a year and a half of rope to do just that and he continued to disappoint. I think he's done outside a Matt Martin type role.

They can buy him out though. They don't get the gain in the first two years of cap space, but that actual cost is pretty similar to what a Neal buy out is.

It doesn't take a lot of searching to find Edmonton Athletic articles talking about how the Oilers should be able to find a home for Lucic because his actual dollars are lower than his cap hit (they were right, that's likely the 2nd reason Calgary did the deal), ... teams like the Senators take on those deals if you can find the right match.

I can't fathom Lucic looking like a contributor for four years ... I think the wheels will fall off both player, but Calgary may have an option or two.

nik- · 10-13-2019, 12:55 PM

will fall off?

The wheels fell off two season ago.

jayswin · 10-13-2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

The Brouwer, Neal signings really set the Flames back both on te ice and in terms of cap flexibility. Despite how bad both Brouwer and Neal played they still got ice time. Some poor decisions overall leading to some wasted opportunities. That said this is still a strong Flames team, and should make an impact this season.

But what is an "impact"? We have a small window left here with this core and need to (well probably needed to) go all in at some point. A decent season isn't worth much to us right now, we need to be contending.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Trading him for Lucic was also a mistake. No ifs ands or buts.

The Flames compounded their mistake of signing neal by committing long term to a 5 million dollar 4th liner.

I think for that to be true you'd have to be happy with keeping Neal in Calgary then, because I would guess that was the only trade they could make without tossing in huge assets to make it work.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the Flames had bought out Neal, the Oilers would still have lucic, the Flames would have cap space and Neal woulddn't be a distraction.

Instead, the Flames have no cap space, the Oilers get out from under Lucic and Neal is still a distraction even though he's not even on the team anymore.

Initially I wanted to see the merit in the trade as well, dufus for dufus yadda yadda yadda, but the more I thought about it, the more it became clear to me that this was a really, really bad decision by Flames management.

Treliving certainly hinted that buying out Neal wasn't an option.

I think that might have been his plan A

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

No one is afraid of Lucic. This needs to stop.

We bet that a three year downward trajectory was more likely to return to effectiveness than a one off year trajectory. We bet poorly, we got burnt.

I think the fear thing gets over stated for sure, but seeing the Vancouver game live this year it was easy to see Edler avoiding Lucic on the forecheck on numerous occasions.

He couldn't wait to get rid of the puck.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yes but Vegas hadn't broken him. They got a spectacular playoff performance out of him.

Agree that any 30+ UFA is not usually worth the money.

Lucic has a crappy season and gets 10 pts in 22 playoff games and the Flames win the trade.

It is up to Peters to keep Lucic involved enough to give him a chance to be a playoff success.

No they didn't get a spectacular playoff performance out of him. They got production sure, but if a player is getting run in five on five play he's a detriment to the team because his defense exceeds his goal impact.

That was my point. He was ranked 18th in xGF% out of 22 skaters in that post season. That's a bad hockey player. He got some puck luck but he certainly wasn't spectacular.

Flash Walken · 10-13-2019, 01:10 PM

Well if Brian Burke said it about his former team and the guy he hired....

bubbsy · 10-13-2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the fear thing gets over stated for sure, but seeing the Vancouver game live this year it was easy to see Edler avoiding Lucic on the forecheck on numerous occasions.

He couldn't wait to get rid of the puck.

Yup. I look forward to playing the avs to see how aggressive zadorov is with his hits.

This thread needs to fall off the first page.

Neal went on a heater. He will score goals.

In the end, the trade likely looks stupid. Dumb move by treliving, but does this have to be bumped every time neal scores or heck, the oilers play???

Corral · 10-13-2019, 01:14 PM

Its mind blowing that the flames management would throw so much money at James Neal at the cusp of a window for winning and yet not be 100% sure he fits in the lineup. And then trade him for a relic from the 1970s NHL . Only someone drowning in cash would be so careless.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Well if Brian Burke said it about his former team and the guy he hired....

He said the only view like that is on this site. I gave some examples ...

I think it qualifies.

Barca · 10-13-2019, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the fear thing gets over stated for sure, but seeing the Vancouver game live this year it was easy to see Edler avoiding Lucic on the forecheck on numerous occasions.

He couldn't wait to get rid of the puck.

thats... what defencemen are suppose to do when there's a forchecker...

Geeoff · 10-13-2019, 02:00 PM

One thing to factor in is that I wouldn't be shocked if some of Lucic's big drop in production is based on lingering injuries, so he'll probably be on LTIR sooner than later and LTIR players have proven to be surprisingly easy to move if needed.

powderjunkie · 10-13-2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corral

Its mind blowing that the flames management would throw so much money at James Neal at the cusp of a window for winning and yet not be 100% sure he fits in the lineup. And then trade him for a relic from the 1970s NHL . Only someone drowning in cash would be so careless.

The team was coming off 3 seasons without winning a playoff game. Only one WC team scored fewer goals the previous year. There was no reason to expect the Flames were an imminent juggernaut. They owned Lindholm for 10 days before this signing and probably had him slotted in the #2C role, leaving Frolik as the only legit NHL RW on the whole roster.

Nobody thought the signing was crazy when they did it. A million too much and a year too long? Of course...the same as pretty much every UFA deal, ever.

Year one was really, really bad. BT took on a Cash Money loan to pay a higher than anticipated winter heating bill instead of pawning something else and trying to patch the drafty doors and windows.

DazzlinDino · 10-13-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

But what is an "impact"? We have a small window left here with this core and need to (well probably needed to) go all in at some point. A decent season isn't worth much to us right now, we need to be contending.

Well the idea was to look at things rationality and optimistically, but I'm not 100% convinced this group could do any better in the playoffs than they did last season. I think the talent is there during the season but I'm not sure we have the right mix of players to grind through the playoffs. When I look at the line up, it seems like we still don't have the right ingredients. I still think this team can have an impact during and have a good season. Unfortunately like Washington it's likely going to take some tinkering and several kicks at the can.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barca

thats... what defencemen are suppose to do when there's a forchecker...

I know what defenseman do.

I also know the difference between hastily moving the puck before reading all your options.

Bingo · 10-13-2019, 03:11 PM

Just amazed how many people are making season long decisions about a roster after five games.

TheScorpion · 10-13-2019, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just amazed how many people are making season long decisions about a roster after five games.

If there's anything I learned from the Mike Smith situation last year, it's that early October hockey (and early-season hockey in general) is largely meaningless

nik- · 10-13-2019, 03:49 PM

Helping your team earn points in October is meaningless.

topfiverecords · 10-13-2019, 03:55 PM

If St. Louis can do it so can we.