Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The Oilers can buy Neal out after a couple of years. 2 million over 4 years isn't great but its better than nothing.

What are the Flames going to do with Lucic if he continues to look like a below replacement level player?

2M plus the 750k they pay Lucic

Hopefully the flames find a team that needs to reach the cap floor but doesn't want to spend the actual money. I still think Lucic could be useful in the playoffs.

3rd round pick who knows.... hopefully the Flames find a player who will contribute long after these two players are gone

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The Oilers can buy Neal out after a couple of years. 2 million over 4 years isn't great but its better than nothing.

What are the Flames going to do with Lucic if he continues to look like a below replacement level player?

The one and only argument Oiler fans keep coming back to. I will bet that Neal gets bought out before Lucic does. SO in that sense, the Oilers 'won' something.

[ForeverFlameFan]

How does someone win a trade when they buyout the player they acquired?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The Oilers can buy Neal out after a couple of years. 2 million over 4 years isn't great but its better than nothing.

What are the Flames going to do with Lucic if he continues to look like a below replacement level player?

My guess is LTIR.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Amazing how clear my post is yet some can't understand it.

except that was not all you were saying, as evidenced by this...

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The amount of mental gymnastics going on in this thread is ludicrous. The Oilers got the better player and the contract that was more buyout friendly. They clearly fleeced the Flames on this trade and this is the only place where you will find a contrary opinion. At least the Flames will have a 3rd round pick coming and I suppose if they can nail that pick it's the only hope of salvaging the trade.

you have been making Neal out to be some great player that the Flames have gifted to the Oilers. Though now, you are throwing in the buyout argument. So which is it: great player that we gifted to the Oilers, or buyout candidate?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Also, EE has been catagorizing Neal as some kind of great player that 'winning follows him around'. It's not just over the top, it's wrong.

Here's the problem. James Neal is leading the league in goals scoring and the Oilers are 5-0. The longer this continues the worse your opinion looks. I can't say if the Oilers will continue to win and Neal will continue to score. It could be over as of today and maybe I am wrong. But if it doesn't you will just have to suck it up and accept that maybe some opinions you don't agree with aren't wrong.

[Manhattanboy]

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

except that was not all you were saying, as evidenced by this...



you have been making Neal out to be some great player that the Flames have gifted to the Oilers. Though now, you are throwing in the buyout argument. So which is it: great player that we gifted to the Oilers, or buyout candidate?

You keep saying that I'm calling him a great player. Let's put this to bed once and for all and you find a quote where I said that. Please or zip it. I have never said once he's a great player but I will say he's a hell of a lot better than Lucic which is the crux of the argument.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Here's the problem. James Neal is leading the league in goals scoring and the Oilers are 5-0. The longer this continues the worse your opinion looks. I can't say if the Oilers will continue to win and Neal will continue to score. It could be over as of today and maybe I am wrong. But if it doesn't you will just have to suck it up and accept that maybe some opinions you don't agree with aren't wrong.

lol

And if the Oilers become good, and if Neal is a contributing factor to such an outcome, and if he is a more significant factor than Lucic, then yes, I will readily admit that I am wrong.

But 7 goals, and a hot start in October against weak competition, have proven nothing.

[RedHawk12]

The number of posters who have allowed the Neal trade to get in their heads and mess with it is astonishing. If Oilers fans were doing this, we'd all be laughing our heads off about the amount of salt in this thread.

Whether or not Neal bounces back or not, he was an awful player for the Flames. The Flames are better without him than with him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

The number of posters who have allowed the Neal trade to get in their heads and mess with it is astonishing. If Oilers fans were doing this, we'd all be laughing our heads off about the amount of salt in this thread.

Whether or not Neal bounces back or not, he was an awful player for the Flames. The Flames are better without him than with him.

Oilers fans are laughing at us for trying to polish this turd.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans are laughing at us for trying to polish this turd.

oh no.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by dino7c

2M plus the 750k they pay Lucic

Hopefully the flames find a team that needs to reach the cap floor but doesn't want to spend the actual money. I still think Lucic could be useful in the playoffs.

3rd round pick who knows.... hopefully the Flames find a player who will contribute long after these two players are gone

Yes 2.75 million cap hit, which is still better than the $6 million of dead space Lucic will take up for 4 seasons.

I was shocked that a good team wanted Lucic. What are the odds that another good team will want Lucic is he doesn't show any signs of life? Will Lucic waive his NMC to go a a team like Ottawa?

LTIR seems unlikely given that Lucic has been healthy as a horse.

He might be useful in the playoffs. Seems unlikely to me given that the regular season is too fast paced for him at this point and the playoffs are even faster. Its not even a skating thing. He has never been fast. His hands are just completely gone. Reminds me of Jeff Freisen or Gomez who just lost their hands completely around 30.

It shouldn't even matter to Flames fans what Neal does in Edmonton. They should just look at whether Lucic is bringing more than Neal did.

Through Neal's first 4 games with the Flames he had 2 points, was -2? and had 9 shots on net.
Lucic is zero points, -2 and one shot on net.

It's early and Lucic may turn it around, but the Oilers gave him a year and a half of rope to do just that and he continued to disappoint. I think he's done outside a Matt Martin type role.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But as has been pointed out countless times, the signing of Neal has nothing to do with Lucic. It is a sunk cost.

EE continues to criticizethe trade and Lucic and his salary.

These things have to remain separate.

The signing of Neal was a disaster.

The trading of Neal for Lucic, salvaged some usability out of a useless (and possibly poisonous) non-asset.

EE refuses to separate those things.

Also, EE has been catagorizing Neal as some kind of great player that 'winning follows him around'. It's not just over the top, it's wrong.

The organization whiffed. I think we all agree on this point including, EE. It never should have come to this, that was EE's point.

Lets not make it into more than that. I don't blame EE for criticizing the trade, it is still early, but not out of the question that it could tilt in the oilers favor. That said. I think Neal is still a spade; Neal came to work for the oilers with his pride hurt and in better shape. At the end of the day is he the "real deal?" ..I think he needs to be gifted situations to mask his poor play.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans are laughing at us for trying to polish this turd.

Say it ain't so!!!! There is nothing I care more about, than the opinion of Oilers fans!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The Oilers can buy Neal out after a couple of years. 2 million over 4 years isn't great but its better than nothing.

What are the Flames going to do with Lucic if he continues to look like a below replacement level player?

The Oilers are not going to buy out their Rocket Richard winner.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans are laughing at us for trying to polish this turd.

You can only win the games you have on the schedule so credit where credit is due, but the Oilers don't play a decent team until they meet the Capitals in Game 11.


The easy start to the season was a gift to the Oilers but the rest of the league will be back to laughing at them by US Thanksgiving as is the case every season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans are laughing at us for trying to polish this turd.

I am laughing at the Oilers and their fans because their team is garbage. How emotionally damaged should Flames fans feel that Oilers fans are laughing about this "polished turd" when this team is in the midst of its competitive window?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You keep saying that I'm calling him a great player. Let's put this to bed once and for all and you find a quote where I said that. Please or zip it. I have never said once he's a great player but I will say he's a hell of a lot better than Lucic which is the crux of the argument.

some quick snippets...

In three games he's directly responsible for 4 points in the standings. It's not a stretch to think his addition could be good for 15+ additional points in the standings if he scores close to 30 goals. There is little doubt the Oilers are clearly better with Neal than Lucic. It's a hard pill for me to swallow personally as it's also made the Flames look foolish around the league for bailing out a rival team. I'm tired of this organization making mistakes like this as it's always one step forward, one step back with this team.

lol

About it being "ridiculous to suggest Neal is worth a 19 point gain"...

I don't think so. It's not just Neal but the effect he has on his linemates. McDavid turned a replacement level player in Chiasson into a 20+ goal forward so you replace Chaisson with a guy like Neal that has pedigree as a goal scorer then it makes life easier for McDavid, RNH, or Draisaitl. I personally don't believe the Flames sniff 100 points if they don't make the acquisition of Lindholm last season as he played a key role in the career seasons of Monahan and Gaudreau.

Winning follows James Neal around.

which doesn't seem like much, except you take it further here...

I'm sure it's partially coincidence but it's hard to argue that winning has followed him around. Nashville, Vegas, and the Flames in successive seasons had their best seasons in recent history with him.

so Neal is helping make these teams winners - including Calgary! lol

[Harry Lime]

Haven't been in this thread for a while.

Lucic is a better than replacement level player, and is fine in the bottom six. He's eating up about 3M in cap that he shouldn't be, but that's not insurmountable.

Neal would have been a poison in calgary if he continued there for this season. So what it comes down to is 3M a year to extract that poison. Alright, fine.

If neal does well in edmonton, it doesn't really matter because the fact is that he would have always played like he had been slighted, if he remained in calgary.