Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion - Page 150 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Textcritic · 10-10-2019, 09:59 AM

Mark Stone is now the best player in the world???

How about that.

GioforPM · 10-10-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

James Neal is not worth an additional 15 points in the standings.

Looking at the two games in which he's scored and Edmonton won, can anyone honestly say that another player in his spot (say, Chiasson) would not have scored at least enough to get Edmonton the same Ws? As some have noted, Neal was essentially banging in rebounds or tipping shots. Anbother player there surely gets the same chances. I sure didn't expect a four goal game, but Edmonton wins that game with or without Neal IMO.

Flash Walken · 10-10-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mark Stone is now the best player in the world???

How about that.

Yeah man, bingo just said as much here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sidney Crosby and Mark Stone on two different sites led the league in WAR last year with numbers between 5.5 and 7

So that's 11 to 14 points and they're at the top.

James Neal is not worth an additional 15 points in the standings.

Oh, maybe he meant stone was only the second best player in the league. I guess that changes everything.

Bingo · 10-10-2019, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Best player in the league was available at the deadline in a season where Calgary were strong cup contenders with a gaping hole on right wing which just happens to be the position the best player in the world played.

Very Laugh/Cry emotions.

For sure, he would have been a great add.

But haven't we heard rumblings that Stone wouldn't sign for the same deal in Calgary? If so it's a different equation than just assuming you could do what Vegas did straight up.

Geeoff · 10-10-2019, 10:05 AM

People talking #### about Chiasson but I think he played better for the Flames than Neal did

Textcritic · 10-10-2019, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah man, bingo just said as much here...

Oh, maybe he meant stone was only the second best player in the league. I guess that changes everything.

It's one measure of player quality. I am unaware that WAR is the definitive arbiter for determining the best players in the world.

Flash Walken · 10-10-2019, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure, he would have been a great add.

But haven't we heard rumblings that Stone wouldn't sign for the same deal in Calgary? If so it's a different equation than just assuming you could do what Vegas did straight up.

yeah, we heard lots of water carrying from people connected to the flames about how and why the deal wouldn't go down after the flames walked away from the deadline with just Fantenberg.

But then, we also heard from Maloney that they went to bed the night before the deadline thinking they had a done deal, sooooo...

GioforPM · 10-10-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure, he would have been a great add.

But haven't we heard rumblings that Stone wouldn't sign for the same deal in Calgary? If so it's a different equation than just assuming you could do what Vegas did straight up.

Stone's deal is pretty rich as is IMO. Looking at the difference in Tkachuk v. Point which is likely due to taxes, he probably costs more. Like maybe $1.5 more.

See this article, which compares his take home to salaries in income tax states (I'm assuming Canadian taxes might be even more).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlak.../#3f1c6f50748c

Monahammer · 10-10-2019, 10:10 AM

This is way OT but in retrospect, especially considering his injury in the offseason, you gotta make that stone deal every time.

I am also still saddened by that as I had been arguing for a mark stone deal for some time. It's done now and he signed long term in Vegas, no sense crying over spilled milk.

Flash Walken · 10-10-2019, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is way OT but in retrospect, especially considering his injury in the offseason, you gotta make that stone deal every time.

I am also still saddened by that as I had been arguing for a mark stone deal for some time. It's done now and he signed long term in Vegas, no sense crying over spilled milk.

What about Laugh/Crying?

FlamesAddiction · 10-10-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure, he would have been a great add.

But haven't we heard rumblings that Stone wouldn't sign for the same deal in Calgary? If so it's a different equation than just assuming you could do what Vegas did straight up.

I don’t think the Flames, given the cap situation, could have signed him for anything close to what Vegas did. We would have been paying for a pure rental. Looking at how the team played in the playoffs, one player would not have made a huge difference. I am glad the trade didn’t go down.

Manhattanboy · 10-10-2019, 10:19 AM

There must be a word for what happens when you really hope for something and then when it doesn't happen you are really glad it didn't happen.

Kinda like "experience", which is what you get when you didn't get what you really wanted...

Geeoff · 10-10-2019, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is way OT but in retrospect, especially considering his injury in the offseason, you gotta make that stone deal every time.

I am also still saddened by that as I had been arguing for a mark stone deal for some time. It's done now and he signed long term in Vegas, no sense crying over spilled milk.

You have a guy in Valimaki who plays a similar style to Gio, studying under Gio. Hard to give that up IMO. If you have a new Gio for the next 10 years, that's a bigger potential impact than Mark Stone.

Bingo · 10-10-2019, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

yeah, we heard lots of water carrying from people connected to the flames about how and why the deal wouldn't go down after the flames walked away from the deadline with just Fantenberg.

But then, we also heard from Maloney that they went to bed the night before the deadline thinking they had a done deal, sooooo...

I think I heard it from Eastern media so not sure they were carrying water for a team 3500 km away.

Why so jaded man? Isn't it possible that Calgary couldn't get the same deal? It's Las Vegas vs Calgary for God's sake, it's almost a certainty the motivation to land in each market would be different.

Flash Walken · 10-10-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think I heard it from Eastern media so not sure they were carrying water for a team 3500 km away.

Why so jaded man? Isn't it possible that Calgary couldn't get the same deal? It's Las Vegas vs Calgary for God's sake, it's almost a certainty the motivation to land in each market would be different.

So you're simultaneously telling me that not getting upset over losses is a sign i'm not a fan, but discussing missing out on one of the best players in the whole league in the teams best season in 30 years makes me jaded?

Gaskal · 10-10-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So you're simultaneously telling me that not getting upset over losses is a sign i'm not a fan, but discussing missing out on one of the best players in the whole league in the teams best season in 30 years makes me jaded?

What he's saying is that you're basically the Randy Marsh of Calgarypuck.

topfiverecords · 10-10-2019, 10:47 AM

How to Get From James Neal to Mark Stone in 3000 Easy Posts.

Monahammer · 10-10-2019, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeoff

You have a guy in Valimaki who plays a similar style to Gio, studying under Gio. Hard to give that up IMO. If you have a new Gio for the next 10 years, that's a bigger potential impact than Mark Stone.

Potential is hard- even without the injury sapping yet another crucial development period from the young lad, there was never a guarantee he would become Gio-like. He has looked good in limited time, but not a game changer. So he's a lottery ticket (albeit one with decent probability.)

On the other hand, you have Mark Stone, who is pretty much guaranteed to score 60+ points and ~30 goals while playing great D for the next 5 years. Has 6 points in 3 games this season already. That would have looked really great on this squad.

I agree it's hard to give up, but we're at the stage in our lifecycle where the team is on the cusp, and some extra juice could push us over. Add in our relative bounty of young d and i think you have to make the trade. It looks really like a missed opportunity now that we know Vali is injured and not contributing at all to this roster today.

Bingo · 10-10-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So you're simultaneously telling me that not getting upset over losses is a sign i'm not a fan, but discussing missing out on one of the best players in the whole league in the teams best season in 30 years makes me jaded?

No the jaded part comes in with the water carrying line.

And if you read my response from yesterday I said clearly I wasn't suggesting you're not a fan.

Strange Brew · 10-10-2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeoff

You have a guy in Valimaki who plays a similar style to Gio, studying under Gio. Hard to give that up IMO. If you have a new Gio for the next 10 years, that's a bigger potential impact than Mark Stone.

I don't know about that. We can argue Gio vs. Stone in impact, but potential Gio vs. Stone is a no brainer IMO.

Of course there were other parts of the trade.