Practice October 7 - Bennett promoted to second line

[Calgary4LIfe]

Great move pushing Bennett up to the 2nd line. Just keep him there. He is either a top 6 winger, or a 3rd line centre - either would make me happy.



I like Frolik, and I have consistently said that this team is better with him than without him, and I am glad that they managed to keep him on the team through the off-season. Frolik is an enigma to me offensively - does he have a really good shot? No - it is almost a muffin half the time. Does he posses great vision? No, I see him shoot too often from everywhere on the ice rather than attempt a pass. Does he posses soft hands where he can make good passes? No, he doesn't usually make clean tape-to-tape passes that would confuse him with being a playmaker. However, he consistently puts up points and goals... somehow. That's ok with me. I don't know how he does it, but he does it consistently. What I really love about his game and where I think that he is a big asset to this team is his non-stop motor out there on the forecheck and backcheck. I think he is the Flames' best defensive winger. He does that AND he somehow puts up points consistently? That's a solid depth player welcome on any team in the NHL, IMO.


Another player that I would like to highlight is Jankowski. He has been really good so far this season. His passing has been really great, and he has been playing much more assertively. I did not want to lose him off the team either as I don't look at a specific age on a player and think: "finished product". IMO, he is still maturing physically and professionally. I hope he manages to pot 15+ goals this season off the 4th line, while giving the Flames strong defensive play (including the PK). I seriously think he has gone under the radar for the most part in these two games - his passing and board play especially have been noticeably great.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Great move pushing Bennett up to the 2nd line. Just keep him there. He is either a top 6 winger, or a 3rd line centre - either would make me happy.



I like Frolik, and I have consistently said that this team is better with him than without him, and I am glad that they managed to keep him on the team through the off-season. Frolik is an enigma to me offensively - does he have a really good shot? No - it is almost a muffin half the time. Does he posses great vision? No, I see him shoot too often from everywhere on the ice rather than attempt a pass. Does he posses soft hands where he can make good passes? No, he doesn't usually make clean tape-to-tape passes that would confuse him with being a playmaker. However, he consistently puts up points and goals... somehow. That's ok with me. I don't know how he does it, but he does it consistently. What I really love about his game and where I think that he is a big asset to this team is his non-stop motor out there on the forecheck and backcheck. I think he is the Flames' best defensive winger. He does that AND he somehow puts up points consistently? That's a solid depth player welcome on any team in the NHL, IMO.


Another player that I would like to highlight is Jankowski. He has been really good so far this season. His passing has been really great, and he has been playing much more assertively. I did not want to lose him off the team either as I don't look at a specific age on a player and think: "finished product". IMO, he is still maturing physically and professionally. I hope he manages to pot 15+ goals this season off the 4th line, while giving the Flames strong defensive play (including the PK). I seriously think he has gone under the radar for the most part in these two games - his passing and board play especially have been noticeably great.

I would say that consistency is not how I would describe frolik- his season by season production may be relatively consistent but I think hes the very definition of a streaky offensive producer. I think hes better served as a third line type myself, but that's not a bad thing. Agreed that we are a better team with him on the roster, but I do think we could find an upgrade offensively speaking for a similar cap hit.

I completely disagree with your take on janko. this season he has continued how he looked for large stretches to end last season- a timid player in crowded ice who doesnt seem to want to engage physically and take advantage of his tools. His shot was good at one point but in the last 6 months its turned into a pumpkin. I also feel like his development has completely stalled (or perhaps plateaud) I'm very disappointed that this player hasnt seized on the clear roster opportunity as a top 9 centre. I would have applauded trading him this offseason as I think his value will only decrease from here.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah I agree, I don't know how you can say Ryan - Bennett - Lucic is an average 2nd PP forward group when not sure that is even an average 3rd line, much less thinking strictly offense.

That PP unit is going to have a hard, hard time gaining the zone and keeping possession.

Gaining zone shouldn't be the issue really. Brodie and Andersson are both pretty good in that area, and I would guess that they would skate it in, look for a pass to the supporting forward group, and then move back to position.

The problem will be what happens after that. I guess we'll find out.

I actually like that better than the "give it to Johnny" first PP gaining the zone, because with this the defense can't just stack one side of the ice.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Gaining zone shouldn't be the issue really. Brodie and Andersson are both pretty good in that area, and I would guess that they would skate it in, look for a pass to the supporting forward group, and then move back to position.

The problem will be what happens after that. I guess we'll find out.

I actually like that better than the "give it to Johnny" first PP gaining the zone, because with this the defense can't just stack one side of the ice.

Fair point. I guess we'll see if the unit can do anything other than toss the puck back and forth at the point.

Thing is, it seems to me most PP's now do their damage down low, so you need players with good hands, instincts and make quick decisions.

Czarnik really should be the PP specialist but he is a handicap 5on5, and not that great on the PP either, so I don't disagree with sitting him in favor of a guy that can kill penalties.

Jankowski was supposed to be a guy that could handle the puck, distribute and with his reach, be effective around the net.

[Bingo]

Some Bennett Frolik numbers from last year.

Production

Frolik

	Min	G	A	P	P60
Total	813	12	15	27	1.99
With	551	11	13	24	2.61
WO	262	1	2	3	0.69

Bennett

	Min	G	A	P	P60
Total	804	9	12	21	1.57
With	270	3	5	8	1.78
WO	534	6	7	13	1.46

What does it mean? Frolik was more productive with Backlund/Tkachuk than Bennett was last year and had twice the minutes. However Bennett was more productive in the bottom six than Frolik was.

Simple Possession Metric

Frolik

	Min	CF	CA	CF%	CF60	CA60
Total	813	879	683	56.3%	64.87	50.41
With	551	591	463	56.1%	64.36	50.42
WO	262	288	220	56.7%	65.95	50.38

Bennett

	Min	CF	CA	CF%	CF60	CA60
Total	804	858	745	53.5%	64.03	55.60
With	270	294	246	54.4%	65.33	54.67
WO	534	564	499	53.1%	63.37	56.07

What does it mean? Both players have a great ability to drive play with and without quality linemates. Their creation rates are very similar. Frolik gives up less (better defensive player).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

...What does it mean? Frolik was more productive with Backlund/Tkachuk than Bennett was last year and had twice the minutes. However Bennett was more productive in the bottom six than Frolik was...

Both players have a great ability to drive play with and without quality linemates. Their creation rates are very similar. Frolik gives up less (better defensive player).

For me, it boils own entirely to what we have seen from each player through two games: Bennett has been very good, Frolik has been poor. I also think there is a chance that on home ice Bennett could provide a spark to Backlund and Tkachuk. Both players have been below average, and they need to get going. Maybe Bennett is the player to do that.

[Bingo]

Here's individual events

Frolik

	Min	iCF	iSCF	iHDF	iCF60	iSCF60	iHDF60
Total	813	208	122	45	15.35	9.00	3.32
With	551	126	77	30	13.72	8.38	3.27
WO	262	82	45	15	18.78	10.31	3.44

Bennett

	Min	iCF	iSCF	iHDF	iCF60	iSCF60	iHDF60
Total	804	174	123	62	12.99	9.18	4.63
With	270	48	34	16	10.67	7.56	3.56
WO	534	126	89	46	14.16	10.00	5.17

What does it mean? Frolik is more of a high volume less quality guy which can be seen in his high iCF per 60 marks (2-4 more events per 60 than Bennett). But as you move to the right into danger levels Bennett catches up in SCF, and then moves ahead in high danger individual events. The interesting thing? Bennett had less high danger events per 60 with good linemates than he did without.

Is he letting his linemates do too much when he gets promoted?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Here's individual events

Frolik

	Min	iCF	iSCF	iHDF	iCF60	iSCF60	iHDF60
Total	813	208	122	45	15.35	9.00	3.32
With	551	126	77	30	13.72	8.38	3.27
WO	262	82	45	15	18.78	10.31	3.44

Bennett

	Min	iCF	iSCF	iHDF	iCF60	iSCF60	iHDF60
Total	804	174	123	62	12.99	9.18	4.63
With	270	48	34	16	10.67	7.56	3.56
WO	534	126	89	46	14.16	10.00	5.17

What does it mean? Frolik is more of a high volume less quality guy which can be seen in his high iCF per 60 marks (2-4 more events per 60 than Bennett). But as you move to the right into danger levels Bennett catches up in SCF, and then moves ahead in high danger individual events. The interesting thing? Bennett had less high danger events per 60 with good linemates than he did without.

Is he letting his linemates do too much when he gets promoted?

Or it could have just been matchups.

[powderjunkie]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jankowski
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic - Ryan - Czarnik/Rieder


While I'm hesitant to break up the first line, I wonder if Lindholm might be the right tonic to help Bennett reach a higher level as he did with Monahan last year?

The biggest slotting challenge for this team is the top two RW slots...we can slot almost anyone else on the top line and it looks okay, but never quite right. Of all the choices, I've never really seen anyone suggest Janko...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jankowski
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic - Ryan - Czarnik/Rieder


While I'm hesitant to break up the first line, I wonder if Lindholm might be the right tonic to help Bennett reach a higher level as he did with Monahan last year?

The biggest slotting challenge for this team is the top two RW slots...we can slot almost anyone else on the top line and it looks okay, but never quite right. Of all the choices, I've never really seen anyone suggest Janko...

[powderjunkie]

^It's so dumb it might just work. Janko's 31 goals is a lot more than any of the other options have produced over the last 2 seasons...

[Tyler]

Sam Bennett couldn't even make it through ONE FREAKING game on the second line.

He is not a Top 6 player.

Please trade this guy ASAP Brad

[Jiri Hrdina]

What does a Sam+Janko+3rd (since we'll have two) get ya?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What does a Sam+Janko+3rd (since we'll have two) get ya?

The way these two have played? Future considerations maybe?

[Joborule]

So that went well.

[Rando]

That'll do Sam, that'll do.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Sam Bennett couldn't even make it through ONE FREAKING game on the second line.

He is not a Top 6 player.

Please trade this guy ASAP Brad

Sam actually played well until he was dropped a line.

His promotion lasted a period and a half.

He did although cost the team the game today.

No need to over react though

[RedHawk12]

No, Bennett did not play well "until he was dropped a line". He played like garbage for a period and was demoted, and then continued to be awful. His two tripping penalties were brutal too.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What does a Sam+Janko+3rd (since we'll have two) get ya?

Bennett, Jankowski, 1st, 3rd for Nylander
Frolik, 3rd for 2nd

[browna]

Yeah Treliving knew he was getting away with larceny giving up Jankowski in the Zucker trade, touting him as a pk specialist.
He's gotten turned around like a turnstyle on 3 pp goals in 3 games including OT tonight with the cross ice pass with him looking the other way.
Only 7 mins tonight but 2 goals against with soft, inattentive play on both. Didn't show anything 5 on 5 last year to make you think he's anything more then young waiver wire material.