Practice October 7 - Bennett promoted to second line

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They were top 3-7 in almost every single play measurement, and finished with 107 points despite pedestrian special teams and goaltending.

It wasn't a mirage.

Other teams could have improved more, some players may take a step back, who knows ... but nothing about last year was a fluke or a mirage.

Flames top 4 forwards are as good as any in the league

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Czarnik is out for a maintenance day.

From the “Predict the lineup” thread:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Bennett
Lucic Ryan Frolik
Mangiapane Jankowski Rieder

Giordano Brodie
Hanafin Hamonic
Kylington Andersson

Rittich
Talbot

Missed it by two games... except for Frolik and Mangiapne, of course.

I’m loving this lineup for sure, and I’m hoping Frolik is replaced by Czarnik when he gets back, with everything else staying the same. Also... Bennett replacing Backlund on the PP, FINALLY!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The more I look at those lines, the more I’m coming to realize that this maybe isn’t a super deep team. I think last year’s 2nd overall finish was a mirage that tricked us into thinking this group is better than they really are.

Here are the 5v5 primary point rates of our current forward group vs the defending cup champs' roster:

Gaudreau (2.08) - Monahan (2.06) - Lindholm (1.20)
Tkachuk (1.63) - Backlund (1.57) - Bennett (1.41)
Lucic (0.84) - Ryan (1.36) - Mangiapane (1.49)
Rieder (0.50) - Jankowski (1.07) - Frolik (1.39)
Czarnik (1.14)

Now Rieder is coming off a rough season but the season prior he was at a far more respectable 1.04 P1/60. And we can operate on a basis that Lucic is, ironically enough given his history of 30G and 60P seasons... a guy who is not there to score. Regardless, there's reason to think he may be more productive this season on a team with a superior blueline.

vs

Sanford (1.08) - O'Reilly (1.55) - Perron (1.68)
Schwartz (1.58) - Schenn (1.27) - Tarasenko (1.41)
Thomas (1.20) -Sundqvist (1.41) - Steen (0.99)
Maroon (0.93) - Bozak (1.12) - Barbashev (1.36)

Our team is more than deep enough, whether that's in the top six or bottom six.

Make the playoffs.
Don't be a Gulutzan in the playoffs.
Get Hot.

[pepper24]

Big drop off after top line and Tkachuk. Let's see how Bennett does on 2nd line. He looked good the first 2 games.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here are the 5v5 primary point rates of our current forward group vs the defending cup champs' roster:

Gaudreau (2.08) - Monahan (2.06) - Lindholm (1.20)
Tkachuk (1.63) - Backlund (1.57) - Bennett (1.41)
Lucic (0.84) - Ryan (1.36) - Mangiapane (1.49)
Rieder (0.50) - Jankowski (1.07) - Frolik (1.39)
Czarnik (1.14)

Now Rieder is coming off a rough season but the season prior he was at a far more respectable 1.04 P1/60. And we can operate on a basis that Lucic is, ironically enough given his history of 30G and 60P seasons... a guy who is not there to score. Regardless, there's reason to think he may be more productive this season on a team with a superior blueline.

vs

Schwartz (1.58) - Schenn (1.27) - Tarasenko (1.41)
Sanford (1.08) - O'Reilly (1.55) - Perron (1.68)
Maroon (0.93) - Bozak (1.12) - Barbashev (1.36)
Thomas (1.20) -Sundqvist (1.41) - Steen (0.99)

Our team is more than deep enough, whether that's in the top six or bottom six.

Make the playoffs.
Don't be a Gulutzan in the playoffs.
Get Hot.

...now just imagine post-trade deadline:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Hall - Bennett - Tkachuk
Dube - Backlund - Rieder
Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Itse

Whether or not that point needed to be made in public, I do think there was a point to be made.

Frolik ended the season with 16G and 18A despite his injury. Roughly 20+22 pace, which to me seems perfectly respectable considering he missed a good chunk of the season to an injury and the way he kept being bounced from his spot on the second line for players who did even less with those opportunities.

He played only a total of 4 minutes of PP all season. That's less PP time than guys like Stone, Fantenberg and Hathaway. Even Ryan Lomberg got more PP time relative to games played. James Neal got fed 135 minutes of PP time and famously did nothing with them. (Frolik didn't even get much PK time last season, so that's not an excuse.)

You can question whether his offensive chops are good enough for 2nd line duty, but I can see why Frolik felt like he wasn't treated fairly.

He's a good two way hockey player, but when you watch him his vision and hands just translate to the powerplay. I just don't see it.

[pepper24]

Our best option to replace Frolik on 2nd line is playing in Edmonton traded for a 4th liner. Ouch.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Czarnik is out for a maintenance day.

I strongly support putting Mangiapane and Ryan back together. They had some serious chemistry last season. I would however like to see Rieder and Lucic swapped at some point. I think Rieders better wheels would fit that 3rd line better, plus I think Frolik and Lucic might work really well as linemates.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Our best option to replace Frolik on 2nd line is playing in Edmonton traded for a 4th liner. Ouch.

This isnt the Unpopular Opinion thread. Try that one with this hot take.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He's a good two way hockey player, but when you watch him his vision and hands just translate to the powerplay. I just don't see it.

He's not the first or second or third option, that's for sure.

But 25th choice out of all 29 players that played at least a game for the team?

Only four guys got less PPTOI/GP:
Prout, Lazar, Peluso and Kylington

I mean, he definitely has better hands and offensive vision than Garnet Hathaway or Travic Hamonic.

[Rando]

The post I'm about to make is hypocritical, I hate posts like this, it's dismissive, condescending and downright rude.. But..

Originally Posted by pepper24

Our best option to replace Frolik on 2nd line is playing in Edmonton traded for a 4th liner. Ouch.

lol

[foshizzle11]

I am happy to see Bennett up there, I just really hope he can run with it and just excel. No dumb penalties please Sammy.

As mentioned in other threads, I really do hope to see a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Lucic.

If we had to make the lines a bit more balanced, then give this a look:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Czarnik/Reider
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lucic
Frolik - Backlund - Lindholm
Janko - Ryan - Reider/Eat Bread/Czarnik (whoever is playing well stays up on the 1st line).

If that isn't working, then we just swap Reider and Linholm, etc.

And the Backs line in this scenario is more like the defensive 2nd line and the Bennett line is the offensive 2nd line (more offensive zone starts, weaker match ups, etc).

Anyway, the TBL line would be hella fun to watch and would give the other teams fits. Make it so even just for a few shifts a game!

I am pumped for the season, I know people are complaining about the depth on this team, I am not worried one bit. We need those bottom lines to start producing more and I honestly believe they can do it. We have a good mix of youth, speed and experience mixed into the lines. People are more comfortable this year, the coach has the team playing the system better, we have a better group than last year. We have a couple guys in the minors who can come up in case of injury, we have a solid 7th dman who we know can play. Ritter looks amazing, Talbot is a great backup, looking to recapture his confidence and hopefully go on a run once he gets a chance.

People need to calm down and start believing in this team.

[UKflames]

I understand Peters giving the 3m line a go for the first 2 games, just give them enough time to display that it may or may not be working this year. On the flip side of that I really hope Bennett gets at least 2 games, or more, on the 2nd line. You cannot expect chemistry to start right away, give him chance to get comfortable and not feel that he is going back to the 4th line at the slightest mistake.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

I am happy to see Bennett up there, I just really hope he can run with it and just excel. No dumb penalties please Sammy.

As mentioned in other threads, I really do hope to see a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Lucic.

If we had to make the lines a bit more balanced, then give this a look:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Czarnik/Reider
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lucic
Frolik - Backlund - Lindholm
Janko - Ryan - Reider/Eat Bread/Czarnik (whoever is playing well stays up on the 1st line).

If that isn't working, then we just swap Reider and Linholm, etc.

And the Backs line in this scenario is more like the defensive 2nd line and the Bennett line is the offensive 2nd line (more offensive zone starts, weaker match ups, etc).

Anyway, the TBL line would be hella fun to watch and would give the other teams fits. Make it so even just for a few shifts a game!

I am pumped for the season, I know people are complaining about the depth on this team, I am not worried one bit. We need those bottom lines to start producing more and I honestly believe they can do it. We have a good mix of youth, speed and experience mixed into the lines. People are more comfortable this year, the coach has the team playing the system better, we have a better group than last year. We have a couple guys in the minors who can come up in case of injury, we have a solid 7th dman who we know can play. Ritter looks amazing, Talbot is a great backup, looking to recapture his confidence and hopefully go on a run once he gets a chance.

People need to calm down and start believing in this team.

Oh we all believed last season and that turned out great.

[Matata]

I think Peters did the right thing giving Frolik a chance to find his game and is doing the right thing again by giving him a big demotion.

Losing the chemistry and overall effectiveness of the 3M line hurts the flames big time, it would really take Bennett + Mang (or another bottom 6er) to step up to cover for that.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Finally. Hope it sticks for a few games if he doesn’t click right away.

I'm glad Bennett's getting a chance. But for god's sake, let him stay for longer then a shift/game. Even if it takes a month to get some chemistry, I hope they let that line figure it out. Nothing more annoying then seeing a player getting promoted, only to see them not score out of the gate and then moved back down.

God bless Frolik, but we know what Frolik is. He's not trending upwards. He is what he is. We still don't really know what Bennett's ceiling is, or if it's even that high. But the only way to know is to try him out for an extended run.

Please leave Bennett on that line for a long time.

[SmoggyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The more I look at those lines, the more I’m coming to realize that this maybe isn’t a super deep team. I think last year’s 2nd overall finish was a mirage that tricked us into thinking this group is better than they really are.

I am curious as to your thoughts on why. This team appears very well assembled with AHL depth champing at the bit to earn a callup.

[DB93]

Really happy to see Sam get the opportunity on the second line. Through two games he looks assertive to me and is doing a solid job using his team mates. Historically that was always a knock on him.

Very strange to me that Frolik can go from dominating the World Hockey Championships in May to appearing replacement level through two games (particularly playing alongside world class players). Recognize it is only two games but his play has been awful.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Itse

Whether or not that point needed to be made in public, I do think there was a point to be made.

Frolik ended the season with 16G and 18A despite his injury. Roughly 20+22 pace, which to me seems perfectly respectable considering he missed a good chunk of the season to an injury and the way he kept being bounced from his spot on the second line for players who did even less with those opportunities.

He played only a total of 4 minutes of PP all season. That's less PP time than guys like Stone, Fantenberg and Hathaway. Even Ryan Lomberg got more PP time relative to games played. James Neal got fed 135 minutes of PP time and famously did nothing with them. (Frolik didn't even get much PK time last season, so that's not an excuse.)

You can question whether his offensive chops are good enough for 2nd line duty, but I can see why Frolik felt like he wasn't treated fairly.

It's easy to forget though that each time before Frolik was scratched, he had a good stretch of games where he was among the worst players on the ice. I applaud him for coming back with a vengeance after each scratch and playing well, but the scratches were still deserved

[Gaudfather]

Let's hope Bennett can take full advantage of this opportunity if he finds himself on the 2nd line on Tuesday.