[News] October 1 -- Flames final roster moves

[Flames1217]

Anyone have lineup notes from practice today?

[Toonage]

Practice gets underway in 10 minutes

[Itse]

I don't think you can just look at the number of giveaways to make a call about it.

I really like Brodie, I immediately liked him way back when he was a prospect. Yet I would agree that Brodie does have a problem with giveaways that's rare among supposed star defensemen.

He's at times just very sloppy in low pressure situations. I can't think of another D-man that so regularly makes an EASY giveaway like Brodie, with low pressure and time to handle the puck. I also think it's fair to call it sloppiness, because under pressure he's very good. Not to say he doesn't lose the puck or make mistakes under pressure, but not more than anyone else.

[CalgaryFan1988]

It's funny that some of the fans that pick apart Brodie for his giveaways are the same ones that stick up for Gaudreau for his (I notice because I was hard on Gaudreau before myself).

Crazy thought, maybe players who carry the puck more often, happen to give the puck away more?

(This was not in response to you Itse, just a general post)

[Knut]

LAst year Brodie had 100 Giveaways and 68 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...broditj01.html

Gaudreau had 124 Giveaways and 58 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...gaudrjo01.html

In contrast Giordano had 65 Giveaways and 73 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...giordma01.html

Players that have the puck a lot give it away a lot. The difference is that Gaudreau gives it away on the opposing teams blueline, while Brodie does it in his own end.

Brodie is much maligned here because of how blatant some of them are. The vast majority of the time he is driving play in the other direction.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Kristen Anderson@KdotAnderson

Morning all. #Flames C Mikael Backlund is skating in a normal coloured jersey.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Kristen Anderson@KdotAnderson

Derek Ryan is also here skating this morning.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Hes

Players that have the puck a lot give it away a lot. The difference is that Gaudreau gives it away on the opposing teams blueline, while Brodie does it in his own end.

There's a reason why different types of players play in different roles on the team. One reason is, it makes all the difference when, where and why you lose the puck.

[getbak]

Lines from today's practice:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1179447873382973440

Spoiler!

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Lucic-Ryan-Bennett
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Czarnik
Rieder

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson
Stone

Rittich
Talbot

It looks like Stone and Rieder are the odd-men out to start the season.

Only one player on the opening lineup who wasn't with the team last season (plus the backup goalie). I don't know if I've ever seen such little turnover from one season to the next in all the time I've been a fan.

[bax]

A little surprised Rieder is the odd man out after how he finished the pre-season and accumulated so much praise from Peters.

I like giving Czarnik a shot though. He had a good camp from what I saw.

[TheIronMaiden]

Lucic-Ryan-Bennett this has the makings to be a very good line.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by bax

A little surprised Rieder is the odd man out after how he finished the pre-season and accumulated so much praise from Peters.

I like giving Czarnik a shot though. He had a good camp from what I saw.

Seems to me that the 4th line will be a rotation. Any of those players could sit at any point if they don't bring it every shift.

[getbak]

Looks like Backlund might still be a gametime decision. If he can't go, we'll likely see the lineup that practiced yesterday with Bennett centering the second line.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1179453677615976453


One piece of good luck (or good planning) is that the Heat start their season in Colorado on Friday night, so I suspect a couple of players will be invited to the Pepsi Center tomorrow to watch the game (and bring their gear just in case).

[Enoch Root]

Would rather see Rieder in than Czarnik, especially on the road. But if that's the biggest concern then things are good.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hes

LAst year Brodie had 100 Giveaways and 68 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...broditj01.html

Gaudreau had 124 Giveaways and 58 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...gaudrjo01.html

In contrast Giordano had 65 Giveaways and 73 Takeaways
https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...giordma01.html

Players that have the puck a lot give it away a lot. The difference is that Gaudreau gives it away on the opposing teams blueline, while Brodie does it in his own end.

Brodie is much maligned here because of how blatant some of them are. The vast majority of the time he is driving play in the other direction.

Yup. And I would argue that giving it away at the blue is just as bad. Those are the errors that teams take advantage of to create transition opportunities.
Dmen get criticized for their gaffes more because they happen closer to the net - but those give aways in the neutral zone are just as damaging.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Itse

I don't think you can just look at the number of giveaways to make a call about it.

I really like Brodie, I immediately liked him way back when he was a prospect. Yet I would agree that Brodie does have a problem with giveaways that's rare among supposed star defensemen.

He's at times just very sloppy in low pressure situations. I can't think of another D-man that so regularly makes an EASY giveaway like Brodie, with low pressure and time to handle the puck. I also think it's fair to call it sloppiness, because under pressure he's very good. Not to say he doesn't lose the puck or make mistakes under pressure, but not more than anyone else.

I think you've nailed it mostly. Brodie is an excellent player in situations where he just needs to "react" IMO. I don't even think it's pressure vs. no pressure, it is legitimately whether he has time to think or not. I know that's going to sound harsh, because it kind of implies he's not intelligent (which I don't think is the case or at least I don't know).

But anything that requires and has time for a decision, he's a disaster, which is why as you articulated, you see a lot of "low pressure" disaster give aways from him. He makes bad decisions, and takes way too long to make decisions in situations where he's got time. When there is no time to think, and he's just reacting to the play, he's very elite.

It's why he's very good as the last man back breaking up 2 on 1s IMO, it's why his offensive upside shines through on things like when he rushes the puck up ice.........he's just reacting.

On the flip side, it's also why he makes so many disaster errors when he's carrying the puck out on his own and most of his team mates have fled the zone and he's only getting pressure from one offending player (e.g. give away to Getzlaf in the 2014 playoffs) or why he makes some many mistakes when he gets the puck at the blue line i the offensive zone and initially has lots of time to make a move. He just makes bad decisions with the puck in those situations.

I'm more on the page that his downside when he's got time isn't worth the up side he brings in the reaction portion of the game........but I've got nothing to back that up other than it's what I feel.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup. And I would argue that giving it away at the blue is just as bad. Those are the errors that teams take advantage of to create transition opportunities.
Dmen get criticized for their gaffes more because they happen closer to the net - but those give aways in the neutral zone are just as damaging.

They also get criticized more because regardless of where, they are often the last man back. So Gaudreau makes a high risk move, get's stripped, often there will be D man behind him to "take care of" that mistake. Brodie does the same, usually no one but the goalie left behind them.

It's part of the job, D men shouldn't be taking as many risks as a player like Gaudreau because the safety net isn't there for them........because they are the safety net.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

They also get criticized more because regardless of where, they are often the last man back. So Gaudreau makes a high risk move, get's stripped, often there will be D man behind him to "take care of" that mistake. Brodie does the same, usually no one but the goalie left behind them.

It's part of the job, D men shouldn't be taking as many risks as a player like Gaudreau because the safety net isn't there for them........because they are the safety net.

I agree - to a point.
But i think that's letting the forwards off the hook. There is a reason why when players turn it over at either blueline, they are stapled to the bench.
NHL teams feast on the chances those errors create.
It's about having a good sense for risk and reward. There was a game a couple years ago when Johnny turned it over at the opposing blue in a tie game late in the third.
They other team scored and the Flames walked away without even a point.
That stuff drives me nuts.

[Robbob]

Obviously saving Reider for the Oilers games...in December.

[Strange Brew]

What is a good number for turnovers for Gaudreau? He has the puck on his stick constantly and I’m pretty sure he’s coached to play that way, not just make safe plays.

Also, how good a statistic is this? Is it an official stat or is it like hits?