[Signing] Lightning sign Point (3yrs, $6.75 mil AAV)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fire

Well this is the max that Tkachuk will get on a 3 year deal. I would be fine with the same deal. If Tkachuk is in a hurry to leave Calgary and only accepts a 1 year deal after 3 years then you trade him.

I don't think it is that he is in a hurry to leave Calgary. Moreso by becoming a UFA as quickly as possible he gains all the leverage sooner, and at a point in his career when he is most valuable. I think this is all about controlling his own destiny and ensuring maximum return on the value of his services—it's not about getting out of Calgary.

[Lanny_McDonald]

That contract makes him almost arbitration proof, so the fear of that angle being used is pretty much non-existent.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think it is that he is in a hurry to leave Calgary. Moreso by becoming a UFA as quickly as possible he gains all the leverage sooner, and at a point in his career when he is most valuable. I think this is all about controlling his own destiny and ensuring maximum return on the value of his services—it's not about getting out of Calgary.

Sure, but in either case the smart move would be to trade him if he's not willing to sign long term. If he doesn't sign long term with the Flames after the 3 years I doubt he's signing with the Flames as a UFA.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I would also remind him that the Pope is Catholic and, yes indeed, a bear does poop in the woods.

Also

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I would also remind him that the Pope is Catholic and, yes indeed, a bear does poop in the woods.

What if the bear is in a cage?

[Rando]

Originally Posted by New Era

That contract makes him almost arbitration proof, so the fear of that angle being used is pretty much non-existent.

It's not just arbitration, it's the qualifying offer.

For Matthew Tkachuk on a three year deal they will offer him his qualifying offer to retain his rights for the 4th year. Tkachuk accepts it and it's one year away from UFA.

[Sylvanfan]

I tend to think the Flames should operate more like a smaller market baseball team in that they will trade off good young guys just before they hit those ultra premium earning UFA years.

If you try and keep everyone forever...you end up like the Iginla era team which was old, and good enough to be in the playoff mix, but outside of one run, never really do anything.

The real premium free agents are unlikely to look at Calgary as a preferred destination, so my belief is that Drafting is going to be the best chance to get the premium talent that becomes a top level team. With that, you have to be willing to trade it for a top price, and hit the reset button every so often. Stock up on picks so over a 2-3 year period you draft a large group of players, and have a good core emerge from that group. Which for this team...is about 3 years out in my opinion where the current guys who are signed need new deals, and some of the older vets will be onto the backside of their career.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So if Point wants to play it that way (using arb in year 4), it is essentially $29.25M over 4 years (or a $7.3125 equivalent AAV). And then he's a UFA.

These deals are horrible for the teams and for fans in the markets other than the popular UFA destinations.

I think too much is made of that scenario. 6 months prior to contract expiration Tampa offers Point 8 years, $88M or whatever made up number. He can take 8 years of security or sign $9M QO (or arbitrated award)
I think players will take the 8 year deal rather than a QO to UFA one year later

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I tend to think the Flames should operate more like a smaller market baseball team in that they will trade off good young guys just before they hit those ultra premium earning UFA years.

If you try and keep everyone forever...you end up like the Iginla era team which was old, and good enough to be in the playoff mix, but outside of one run, never really do anything.

The real premium free agents are unlikely to look at Calgary as a preferred destination, so my belief is that Drafting is going to be the best chance to get the premium talent that becomes a top level team. With that, you have to be willing to trade it for a top price, and hit the reset button every so often. Stock up on picks so over a 2-3 year period you draft a large group of players, and have a good core emerge from that group. Which for this team...is about 3 years out in my opinion where the current guys who are signed need new deals, and some of the older vets will be onto the backside of their career.

you can be my assistant GM any day

[Enoch Root]

We shall see

But what is the point of setting yourself up for earlier UFA status if you have no intention of leveraging it?

Edit: to Canada02

[bax]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We shall see

But what is the point of setting yourself up for earlier UFA status if you have no intention of leveraging it?

Edit: to Canada02

I think in that scenario the player would still be using their leverage. Kind of a situation where it's "give me this massive deal right now, or else in a year I walk and negotiate with any team I want".

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We shall see

But what is the point of setting yourself up for earlier UFA status if you have no intention of leveraging it?

Edit: to Canada02

It would be leveraged to get a massive 8 year contract, much like what Kucherov signed for

[Macho0978]

[QUOTE=bax;7211372]Interesting, I didn't realize that. Tkachuk would be able to simply accept his

This is assuming the Tkachuk wants out of town. If he does why is 5 years at 9mil better than this. If he takes same deal as point he would only have 9 mil cap hit for 1 year and we lose him 1 year sooner

If Tkachuk wants out that badly I dont see 6 to 8 years as an option. I don't mind the risk involved. If hes a flight risk I'd rather take advantage of the time hes here and maybe team success will convince him to stay

[Robbob]

I don't see the big deal worrying about a 3 year deal. You can't go in with the expectation that the player is going to leave just because it gets them closer to UFA. If this team is winning and gives a player a decent shot, then they will stay. Winning is important to players, so just make sure you have a contender in 4 years. Then the conversation will be more about Brady wanting to leave the tire fire in Ottawa.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

This is assuming the Tkachuk wants out of town. If he does why is 5 years at 9mil better than this. If he takes same deal as point he would only have 9 mil cap hit for 1 year and we lose him 1 year sooner

If Tkachuk wants out that badly I dont see 6 to 8 years as an option. I don't mind the risk involved. If hes a flight risk I'd rather take advantage of the time hes here and maybe team success will convince him to stay

It doesn't. It assumes that Tkachuk is intent on maximizing his leverage and his value, which means getting to UFA as soon as possible. I suspect that Tkachuk would probably happily sign a 6-year deal @ Marner's number to play in Calgary.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bax

I think in that scenario the player would still be using their leverage. Kind of a situation where it's "give me this massive deal right now, or else in a year I walk and negotiate with any team I want".

Originally Posted by Canada 02

It would be leveraged to get a massive 8 year contract, much like what Kucherov signed for

Yes, obviously.

But they would have substantially more leverage if they go UFA.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I tend to think the Flames should operate more like a smaller market baseball team in that they will trade off good young guys just before they hit those ultra premium earning UFA years.

If you try and keep everyone forever...you end up like the Iginla era team which was old, and good enough to be in the playoff mix, but outside of one run, never really do anything.

The real premium free agents are unlikely to look at Calgary as a preferred destination, so my belief is that Drafting is going to be the best chance to get the premium talent that becomes a top level team. With that, you have to be willing to trade it for a top price, and hit the reset button every so often. Stock up on picks so over a 2-3 year period you draft a large group of players, and have a good core emerge from that group. Which for this team...is about 3 years out in my opinion where the current guys who are signed need new deals, and some of the older vets will be onto the backside of their career.

I agree with this post 100% but only as a theory. In practice, this theory will be defeated by a) fans' pressure to keep any star-status players here forever. And, b) our drafting record sucks.

[The Cobra]

The reason that these "bridge" contracts look quite reasonable is that the player gets two things that he's not guaranteed to get at this stage of his career.


Firstly, he gets guaranteed lifetime security by getting $20M or so dollars guaranteed. You normally don't get that type of insurance without signing a very long term contract.


And secondly, he gets the leverage of getting to UFA status as soon as he can.

Historically teams don't ensure the lifetime security aspect without that long term commitment.

RFA's are getting that now, since Matthews signed his contract.

The only way teams have been able to keep the cap hit manageable is give contracts that expire before or at the UFA date. Premium players today want to be able to negotiate that 8-year contract at a time when they are young enough to get the huge deal.

[Enoch Root]

An inevitable result of this shift to larger RFA contracts will be a significant drop in the amount of money that UFAs get. The pool is finite and not all contracts can go up at the same time. Big money used to be reserved for UFAs, but now is being allocated to younger players. Inevitably, UFAs (including these younger players, in a few years' time), just aren't going to get the big deals that were there in the past.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I agree with this post 100% but only as a theory. In practice, this theory will be defeated by a) fans' pressure to keep any star-status players here forever. And, b) our drafting record sucks.

You still think that?

Or is that scar tissue from the Sutter draft era?