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Old 09-16-2019, 08:05 PM   #221
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No, they are just overpaying and thus providing agents (and arbitrators) with comparables.
Yep they are just comparables. Nothing more than that in a league of 31 teams.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:26 PM   #222
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Yep they are just comparables. Nothing more than that in a league of 31 teams.
Come on, like there are a lot of comparable at that level?
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:31 PM   #223
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Bill Peters in the post game scrum says they'd like to try Mangiapane on the right side.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:42 PM   #224
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Bill Peters in the post game scrum says they'd like to try Mangiapane on the right side.
When Tkachuk is back
Gaudreau Monahan Tkachuk
Bennett Lindholm Mangiapagne
Jankowski Backlund Frolik
Lucic Ryan Dube
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:57 PM   #225
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When Tkachuk is back
Gaudreau Monahan Tkachuk
Bennett Lindholm Mangiapagne
Jankowski Backlund Frolik
Lucic Ryan Dube
Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk
Dube-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik

Trade Jankowski with Brodie?

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Old 09-17-2019, 09:53 AM   #226
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per Capfriendly, the confirmed AHL salary is $70k. Same as he made on his ELC
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:16 AM   #227
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per Capfriendly, the confirmed AHL salary is $70k. Same as he made on his ELC
Huh
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:50 AM   #228
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Come on, like there are a lot of comparable at that level?
Comparables for a player like Tkachuk? Why wouldn't Boeser or Aho count, more so than Marner?

I just don't subscribe to the theory that Dubas is setting the market and I don't believe we are seeing any evidence of that, although still some big names not signed obviously. Remember it is not a free market in this case.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:00 AM   #229
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Comparables for a player like Tkachuk? Why wouldn't Boeser or Aho count, more so than Marner?



I just don't subscribe to the theory that Dubas is setting the market and I don't believe we are seeing any evidence of that, although still some big names not signed obviously. Remember it is not a free market in this case.
The point is that because they all count, when one deal appears like an outlier the effect is to drag everything signed subsequently either up or down. If Marner’s deal had come in closer to $9.0 m, then the conversation surrounding Tkachuk’s contract almost certainly changes as a result.


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Old 09-17-2019, 11:03 AM   #230
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The point is that because they all count, when one deal appears like an outlier the effect is to drag everything signed subsequently either up or down. If Marner’s deal had come in closer to $9.0 m, then the conversation surrounding Tkachuk’s contract almost certainly changes as a result.


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An outlier is just that, which is exactly my point. Outliers don't set the market,
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:07 AM   #231
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An outlier is just that, which is exactly my point. Outliers don't set the market,
No, but they do affect it; especially when there is only a handful of market comparables to begin with.

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Old 09-17-2019, 11:17 AM   #232
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No, but they do affect it; especially when there is only a handful of market comparables to begin with.

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Outliers might affect the conversation, but there are far more direct comparables to Tkachuk. That is exactly my point.

No doubt Treliving has mentioned to Tkachuk's agent that he can negotiate an offer sheet with Dubas if he would like.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:39 AM   #233
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I'm not saying Dubas and Chia "set the market". But they are certainly part of it. I'm pretty sure players and agents don't just say "well those guys were stupid, we agree to ignore those contracts".

It's not a coincidence though, that they are the two teams that most hype their players.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:55 AM   #234
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Outliers might affect the conversation, but there are far more direct comparables to Tkachuk. That is exactly my point.

No doubt Treliving has mentioned to Tkachuk's agent that he can negotiate an offer sheet with Dubas if he would like.
It's actually really hard to find comparables to Tkachuk. He's close to elite scoring, and he's done it on the second line. But he's a winger who has never played centre, is not a prototypical modern NHLer (he's more of a throwback).

Not too many close to PPG RFA wingers (though he's only got one year of that). Boeser or maybe Meier might actually be the closest comparables. But they are a tier below. Boeser is at least as important to the Canucks as Tkachuk is to the Flames.

Teravainen maybe? Everyone forgets his contract because he signed it in January. But he scored 76 points, so really close to MT in that regard (maybe in importance to the team as well).
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:00 PM   #235
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It's actually really hard to find comparables to Tkachuk. He's close to elite scoring, and he's done it on the second line.
To play devil's advocate, 31% of his scoring came on the top powerplay, and another handful with the net empty (both ways).

He's a first line talent but I don't think he'd score any more on the "first line".
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:06 PM   #236
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To play devil's advocate, 31% of his scoring came on the top powerplay, and another handful with the net empty (both ways).

He's a first line talent but I don't think he'd score any more on the "first line".
Fair comment. I think he's done well on the second line because it's the second line and he's the scorer there. On the first, he'd have to play more defensively to replace Lindholm and there's only one puck offensively. It's hard to imagine the top line scoring more total goals, so the points would get distributed about the same.

On the PP issue, I get why people downplay PP points. But at the same time, if you don't contribute on the PP it's an issue. And he is really really good at his role there. What % of any top players' points come on the PP? I'd suspect a fair bit.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:13 PM   #237
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On the PP issue, I get why people downplay PP points. But at the same time, if you don't contribute on the PP it's an issue.
All I'm saying is that he does have the advantage of playing on the top powerplay unit, which is a far cry from playing on the "second line". Compare Backlund (2 PP points) to Tkachuk (24 pp points) and now contrast that with Backlund (43 EV points) to Tkachuk (53 EV points). Ryan led our 2nd PP unit in scoring with 7 PP points whereas Gaudreau led our top PP unit in scoring with 27 PP points. That line in the sand is pretty vivid.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #238
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Fair comment. I think he's done well on the second line because it's the second line and he's the scorer there...
He is one of them.

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On the PP issue, I get why people downplay PP points. But at the same time, if you don't contribute on the PP it's an issue. And he is really really good at his role there. What % of any top players' points come on the PP? I'd suspect a fair bit.
This is of course true, but those of us who continue to belabour this point do so as a means to illustrate that this is essentially all that separates Tkachuk from Backlund in terms of offensive production. His gaudy overall point-totals can leave one with the impression that he is far outclassing his line mates, but this is not exactly the case. Yes, Tkachuk is the best offensive player on his line, but the gap looks a lot bigger because of his powerplay opportunities and resulting production.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:17 PM   #239
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All I'm saying is that he does have the advantage of playing on the top powerplay unit, which is a far cry from playing on the "second line". Compare Backlund (2 PP points) to Tkachuk (24 pp points) and now contrast that with Backlund (43 EV points) to Tkachuk (53 EV points).
Again, fair, plus I would add that while he was good at his role on the PP, it's not the role that creates most of the goals (that goes to Gio and Gaudreau, and to a lesser extent Monahan). He has great hands in close and can give and take a lot of abuse, and that's his forte.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:51 PM   #240
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