The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[jayswin]

[QUOTE=dino7c;7202923

RFA forward market value right now on a 6+ year contract is 1M for every 10 points give or take[/QUOTE]

Which is why it was an especially tough year to negotiate a Tkachuk extension. League wide high scoring, Flames as a whole scored really high comparatively. Perfect storm for an $8+mil AAV. Is what it is now, though.

[Dube]

9.1x6

8.7x5

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why don’t you tell everyone what “market value” is for various terms from 1 year through 8?

It’s more than $5 million, which is the post I was referencing.

So I’m clear, what is your recommended strategy? Offer him 1 year below $7 million and if he doesn’t like it, have him sit out a year?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^^^^

But all of this is just a bunch of words describing what you dislike about team builds in the NHL, where as GM's are negotiating with agents based on very specific stat criteria. None of that fan feeling stuff matters, what matters is whether you're willing to let a player like Tkachuk go because you don't like what it costs to retain him.

That's the difference between a GM and a fan blathering about how we can't afford to pay him market value. Not saying every GM is right, but if you're a GM you're in the market value game and trying negotiate below it, if you're a fan you're in the "well, I certainly wouldn't pay him more than X because blah blah blah" game.

It's a much easier game.

No, no. It’s not what I like or dislike. No feelings at all. Cold, hard logic.

Limited dollars are available. Are two six million dollar players better than an 11 million dollar player and a 1 million dollar player? Now that 11 is on the table, GMs have to decide what warrants 11 million, 6, 8, 2, 9.5 etc What about 9 + 3 vs 11 + 1?

Point is, these decisions have consequences on all salaries, if it is agreed that certain point per game guys are now worth 11 .

Not all GMs agree to the valuation that Chiarelli and Dumbass have put on a few specific players.

Thirty one GMs have teams to structure and some of them are going to f up.

That is where we are. How much are Treliving and other GMs going to assume responsible for the fallout of a maniac of two? Because Dubas doesn’t have any more 11 million dollar contracts to give out

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It’s more than $5 million, which is the post I was referencing.

So I’m clear, what is your recommended strategy? Offer him 1 year below $7 million and if he doesn’t like it, have him sit out a year?

Tell me, when you are asking for my strategy, what trade options do I have to work with? Who wants any of the Flames players that will make room for Tkachuk’s wishes, and what will it take to get it done?

Right now, the cold hard data available includes the cap number plus committed contracts.

If Tkachuk wants more than you have, and you feel like giving it to him, what is your strategy? Who goes to make room and what do you add for that team to take salary? Exactly which GMs have roster needs and cap space that align with BT’s excess and are lining up to take salary off BT’s hands? At what point do they ask too much?

Tkachuk sitting out a year is not a threat, it is a potential consequence of a deal not getting done.

Who knows?

“Sorry Matt, I tried to move Lucic /Fro / whoever. No takers. Damn. It’s Dec 1. I can’t give you the AAV you want now. We will have cap space next year. I guess with this pro rating I can offer you 1 year at 4 if you want to play, otherwise it’s next summer. Ok. Gotta go. I have a bunch of guys playing to manage now”

[AustinL_NHL]

Came in here expecting Ricardo to post absolute nonsense and proceed to get demolished by every post in response...

Did not leave disappointed.

[ricardodw]

Evolving hockey had Mcavoy's contract estimated at 6 x 7.1

They had Werenski at 7 x 6.8

They have Tkachuk at 6 x 7.8


The 2 stud d-men signed bridge deals not giving up any UFA years.

3 x 5 and 3 x 4.9 both lower than what evolving hockey says they should have gotten on a 3-yr deal.

They had projected Werenski as 3 x 5.8 and Mcavoy 3 x 6.4

They have Tkachuk at 3 x 6.9 or 2x 5.3


It seems that teams like Boston (who are perennial contenders) Bergeron 138 playoff games do not give away bad contracts.

The Leafs, Oilers and the Flames on the other hand, with the support of their most dedicated fans (CP), feel the need to spend the top end of the market and make their players the happiest in the league.

Trevling did really well with Hanifin and Lindholm last season signing them to market rate contracts, before their agents figured out it was Calgary and not Carolina they were dealing with.

If the Flames want Tkachuk to have 138 playoff games (like Bergeron) they will not offer more than 5 x 2 or 5.5 x 3 or if they cave he will end up with 13 playoff games (Like Gio)


Hard to figure how Flames fans want what is good for the players that results in a mediocre team.

See how Boston handled Dougie Hamilton. They dumped him to a weak sister team for draft picks who gave him a big longterm deal he did not deserve.

Did that hurt Boston?

[Strange Brew]

Ricardo I would love it if Flames management signed every player to bargain deals. Unfortunately it is not a one sided negotiation and I’m pretty sure Tkachuk won’t sign for $5 million. If that had been Flames position from the outset, then I believe his agent would have been looking for an offer sheet and requesting a trade.

I guess that’s your suggestion? Trade him? Because I believe there is a threshold where Tkachuk sits out and he would have told Flames this early in the process.

I know the Jets and Trouba, yadda yadda. I don’t see them as a model organization to emulate, sorry.

So what are you asking for in a Tkachuk trade?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Evolving hockey had Mcavoy's contract estimated at 6 x 7.1

They had Werenski at 7 x 6.8

They have Tkachuk at 6 x 7.8


The 2 stud d-men signed bridge deals not giving up any UFA years.

3 x 5 and 3 x 4.9 both lower than what evolving hockey says they should have gotten on a 3-yr deal.

They had projected Werenski as 3 x 5.8 and Mcavoy 3 x 6.4

They have Tkachuk at 3 x 6.9 or 2x 5.3


It seems that teams like Boston (who are perennial contenders) Bergeron 138 playoff games do not give away bad contracts.

The Leafs, Oilers and the Flames on the other hand, with the support of their most dedicated fans (CP), feel the need to spend the top end of the market and make their players the happiest in the league.

Trevling did really well with Hanifin and Lindholm last season signing them to market rate contracts, before their agents figured out it was Calgary and not Carolina they were dealing with.

If the Flames want Tkachuk to have 138 playoff games (like Bergeron) they will not offer more than 5 x 2 or 5.5 x 3 or if they cave he will end up with 13 playoff games (Like Gio)


Hard to figure how Flames fans want what is good for the players that results in a mediocre team.

See how Boston handled Dougie Hamilton. They dumped him to a weak sister team for draft picks who gave him a big longterm deal he did not deserve.

Did that hurt Boston?

Psycho babble.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...See how Boston handled Dougie Hamilton. They dumped him to a weak sister team for draft picks who gave him a big longterm deal he did not deserve.

Did that hurt Boston?

It sure as hell did not hurt those “weak sister” Flames. Treliving turned three years of excellent production from Hamilton into two young core players signed to long-term bargain deals.

Of course, you are going to find every excuse as usual to deflect or move the goal posts on whatever response you elicit to this post. You will continue in this fashion for as long as the impasse between Tkachuk and the Flames persists, and will almost certainly express shock and disdain for the high cap-hit on the contract he eventually signs.

Then the season will start. The Flames will hopefully start winning early and often, and you will again retreat into the woodwork while the team plays well, only to emerge once more when adversity hits. It’s what you do: pick at every loose thread on the team when things look bad, but then disappear when they are winning, and when the season is the most fun.

I don’t mind fans who are critical, but what really drags the quality of conversation down here are fans who are unnecessarily or cartoonishly excessive in their criticism. Even worse are those who hide behind a veneer of being a “Flames fan” as a means to passively aggressively agitate the community. In the end it’s up to you to decide which poster you are: if the latter, then you undoubtedly can find better uses for your time. If the former, then maybe it’s time to make a show of good faith and celebrate the team you supposedly love for once. Is that team the Flames? Is it the Jets? Boston? Carolina? I cannot even tell anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rando]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Trevling did really well with Hanifin and Lindholm last season signing them to market rate contracts, before their agents figured out it was Calgary and not Carolina they were dealing with.

See how Boston handled Dougie Hamilton. They dumped him to a weak sister team for draft picks who gave him a big longterm deal he did not deserve.

Treliving has knocked RFA contracts out of the park. Hanifin, Lindholm, Monahan, Gaudreau, and yes Dougie Hamilton too. Deals that looked good when signed and only look better the more years into them.

See how Boston handled Dougie Hamilton. They dumped him to a weak sister team for draft picks who gave him a big longterm deal he did not deserve.

Treliving signed Hamilton to a fantastic deal for the team. You're wrong.

weak sister team

before their agents figured out it was Calgary and not Carolina they were dealing with.

Flames on the other hand, with the support of their most dedicated fans (CP), feel the need to spend the top end of the market and make their players the happiest in the league.

How childish are you?

That's three shots on the team and the fanbase in one post. Grow up.

[Zoller]

I'm ok with Tkachuk sitting out some of the season. If it helps brings down the AAV then he can sit till december

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by Zoller

I'm ok with Tkachuk sitting out some of the season. If it helps brings down the AAV then he can sit till december

The problem is it doesn't help, as the longer he sits the higher the AAV is for this season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by UKflames

The problem is it doesn't help, as the longer he sits the higher the AAV is for this season.

In a round-about way, isn’t that precisely what Zoller is getting at? The Flames have a limit on the cap that only decreases with each passing day; if Tkachuk does miss time and signs a contract after the start of the season it will be at a lower cap-hit because it has to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Ricardo I would love it if Flames management signed every player to bargain deals. Unfortunately it is not a one sided negotiation and I’m pretty sure Tkachuk won’t sign for $5 million. If that had been Flames position from the outset, then I believe his agent would have been looking for an offer sheet and requesting a trade.

I guess that’s your suggestion? Trade him? Because I believe there is a threshold where Tkachuk sits out and he would have told Flames this early in the process.

I know the Jets and Trouba, yadda yadda. I don’t see them as a model organization to emulate, sorry.

So what are you asking for in a Tkachuk trade?

facts

1) there is no offer sheet and there wont be one. If there was one Tkachuk would sign and the Flames would match

2) Tkachuk is not going to sit out a season eating potato chips with his Dad

The only teams that have folded are Philly Ivan Provorov 6.75 x 6 and Toronto with Marner and Nylander.

If Tkachuk holds out into the regular season due to personal greed and lack of confidence in his ability to be a ppg player going forward then his leadership and tangibles takes a hit that he wont be able to get back.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

facts

1) there is no offer sheet and there wont be one. If there was one Tkachuk would sign and the Flames would match

2) Tkachuk is not going to sit out a season eating potato chips with his Dad

The only teams that have folded are Philly Ivan Provorov 6.75 x 6 and Toronto with Marner and Nylander.

If Tkachuk holds out into the regular season due to personal greed and lack of confidence in his ability to be a ppg player going forward then his leadership and tangibles takes a hit that he wont be able to get back.

You have absolutely no clue if this is true or not....so NO, not a "fact".

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Those aren't facts. Opinion.

[dammage79]

You know, it'd be nice if people didn't quote RDW for those of us (a lot I assume) who have The grit factor on ignore.

[tkflames]

Looks like Ric is bored on a Sunday morning...and there is an Audience of people looking for updates...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Offer sheet advocates:

Here are the teams with cap space above or even near Tkachuk’s rumoured ask

Colorado 15.6 (Raantanen unsigned)
Winnipeg 15.45 (Laine, Connor)
Ottawa 10.89
Columbus 10.76
Tampa 8.5 (Point)
Anaheim 8.5 (and Kesler and Eaves will add 10 M)

Anyone else I can think of needs to make major moves to create space

So who does Tkachuk get the offer sheet from?

Looking for the team from this list that
- has cap space
- doesn’t need that space for their own RFAs
- is open to spend that cap space
- has compensatory picks
- has a GM willing to offer sheet Treliving
- Tkachuk wants to play for
- I would assume is a contender (can’t imagine Tkachuk is looking for just money)

I’m interested. Do tell