Mangiapane contract negotiations - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FanIn80 · 09-13-2019, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jore

The current contract system is so bizarre. You have the Flames nickle and diming an effective young player primed to break out even further and you have them paying what, $4 million this year for a #7-8 defender?

So you're saying that a senior level employee makes 4x more than a junior level employee?

Textcritic · 09-13-2019, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jore

The current contract system is so bizarre. You have the Flames nickle and diming an effective young player primed to break out even further and you have them paying what, $4 million this year for a #7-8 defender?

Who is that?

getbak · 09-13-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jore

The current contract system is so bizarre. You have the Flames nickle and diming an effective young player primed to break out even further and you have them paying what, $4 million this year for a #7-8 defender?

No. The only d-men making anywhere near that kind of money are the top 4.

Rando · 09-13-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

huh, would you look at that.

Oh phew, you've managed to make the thread about yourself.

agulati · 09-13-2019, 01:59 PM

This looks promising. Hopefully he signs and joins the training camp soon.

Split98 · 09-13-2019, 02:05 PM

In other news, Mangiapane is looking for a new agent

Good call, I'm glad he cut the hardball in time to get into camp. Would have been tough seeing this kid start his uphill battle again after earning his spot last year

Jore · 09-13-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

So you're saying that a senior level employee makes 4x more than a junior level employee?

I'm saying in professional sports players should be paid according to ability

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbak

No. The only d-men making anywhere near that kind of money are the top 4.

My bad, i though the Stone buyout had a higher AAV. so $1.87 mil this year for a 7-8 d

Bingo · 09-13-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

huh, would you look at that.

The $800K / $1M chasm has been out for about a week now. Why did you wait this long to pat yourself on the back?

Textcritic · 09-13-2019, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jore

...My bad, i though the Stone buyout had a higher AAV. so $1.87 mil this year for a 7-8 d

While this is what Michael Stone will take home this year, this is not what the Flames are paying for a #7 defenseman, that is, of course, unless you decide to tack on Stone's buyout to whomever holds down that spot.

The Flames will be paying their #7 defenseman the League minimum.

dino7c · 09-13-2019, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jore

I'm saying in professional sports players should be paid according to ability

My bad, i though the Stone buyout had a higher AAV. so $1.87 mil this year for a 7-8 d

13 career NHL points

one mistake made years ago doesn't mean they should make more mistakes...what ridiculous logic

Stone's contract signed this summer is 700k

SuperMatt18 · 09-13-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

huh, would you look at that.

He wasn't worth over $1M though - the initial rumored Flames offering of $800k, and his new valuation of $850k is way more in line with other contracts signed by other 23 year olds this offseason.

Goldobin: 27 points (63 GP) - $900k
Lemieux: 18 points (63 GP) - $925k
Perlini: 21 points (68 GP) - $875k
Amadio: 13 points (43 GP) - $700k

Mangiapane: 13 points in 44 GP.

Based on closest comparables this offseason he's actually closer to Amadio in production and NHL experience than the other guys listed, and he was signed to a 2 year $1.4M contract. So if anything it's Mangiapane that was the issue holding things up with an evaluation that was too high.

Who does this sound like...

Quote:

The 23-year-old recorded six goals and 13 points in 43 NHL games during the 2018-19 season, playing largely fourth-line minutes in a more defensive role.

https://www.baytoday.ca/local-news/a...-kings-1586839

I think the Flames should sign him at something in that $800-850k range the camps are both at now and that this should get done over the weekend but the Flames not giving him over $1M was more of an issue with him not budging of his ask than it was them low balling him.

TheScorpion · 09-13-2019, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

While this is what Michael Stone will take home this year, this is not what the Flames are paying for a #7 defenseman, that is, of course, unless you decide to tack on Stone's buyout to whomever holds down that spot.

The Flames will be paying their #7 defenseman the League minimum.

Either way, I don't think $1.87 million is an outrageous cap hit for a guy like Stone. I think it's an easy salary to be comfortable with. I think it should be seen as a huge win for Treliving.

GioforPM · 09-13-2019, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rando

Oh phew, you've managed to make the thread about yourself.

It's funny - the only thing right about the post he's crowing about was that the Flames were offering below $1M. Which everyone figured anyway.

He thought Mangiapane was worth more than $1M. Based on what, I don't know.

dino7c · 09-13-2019, 02:29 PM

No kidding...you can say "he came down from his ask just meet him in the middle" but his ask was ridiculous.

If he was asking for 10M and them came down 8M that doesn't mean its a good deal. I'm not even 100% sure he is in the lineup every night with DSP, Dube, potentially others. I will be rooting for the guy but he has gotten some terrible advice.

All I can say is he better sign fast and have a heck of a year...mediocre play will have him riding the bus in the AHL

He should give Joe Colborne a call...scored 19 and thought he was all that, one year later out of the league completely

Enoch Root · 09-13-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

So why would BT move from the existing offer from the flames? The player has no leverage, correct?

Sure, the player has no leverage. However, Treliving - correctly - held firm with what appears to be close to a reasonable offer. Mangiapane has taken a large step towards that offer, and to where it is now within reach. It would be good form, and a show of good faith, for Treliving to take the remaining step and close the deal. If there is a detail or two that is important to Treliving, then keep that in there, but move the number to $850 (or at least $825) and get it done.

Strange Brew · 09-13-2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Either way, I don't think $1.87 million is an outrageous cap hit for a guy like Stone. I think it's an easy salary to be comfortable with. I think it should be seen as a huge win for Treliving.

A buy out is never a huge win IMO. It is wasted money.

Is signing Stone to $700k a win? Yeah I suppose but presumably his door wasn’t getting beaten down either. Let’s see how he plays.

As for Mangiapane, that is quite the detailed report by Francis. The easy thing is to say Flames should come up $50K to meet his number but not sure they should. Tricky thing is they have him by the short hairs now and he feels like he made a big move. You don’t want ill will which is where a good agent would really be helpful.

tkflames · 09-13-2019, 02:35 PM

He needs to fire his agent ASAP...regardless of outcome here. I said it before but...Czarnik is just licking his chops while the current step up to Mangiapane is marginal at best. If he has a poor showing at training camp because he is a step behind coming in late and eats popcorn for half the season...he has no leverage and lost an entire development year. The lifetime earnings of that could easily be multiple million $$.

I want to see the guy succeed...but with a number of $700k players in the mix including Dube, Smith-Pelley, Rinaldo and Rieder...and with Czarniks career on the line also...this was a huge mistake. Every day from now on...that mistake gets worse. Brad can just sit and let him sign the qualifying offer now...even if he offered more earlier. It would make sure this stupidity sticks for future generations to think twice...

Strange Brew · 09-13-2019, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Sure, the player has no leverage. However, Treliving - correctly - held firm with what appears to be close to a reasonable offer. Mangiapane has taken a large step towards that offer, and to where it is now within reach. It would be good form, and a show of good faith, for Treliving to take the remaining step and close the deal. If there is a detail or two that is important to Treliving, then keep that in there, but move the number to $850 (or at least $825) and get it done.

Making a large move from an outrageous position shouldn’t result in just splitting the difference.

Why pay him $850K if his market value is lower? Because his initial ask was ridiculous?

GioforPM · 09-13-2019, 02:45 PM

Mangiapane's agent is Ritch Winter. Winter's best player is Gio. I wonder if Winter said "you are the same as Gio way back when".

And then Gio whispered to Mangiapane "no you aren't".

I wonder if Winter was looking for a win this year. All of his other contracts negotiated this year are low end as well.

Enoch Root · 09-13-2019, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Making a large move from an outrageous position shouldn’t result in just splitting the difference.

Why pay him $850K if his market value is lower? Because his initial ask was ridiculous?

There is a list of comparables above - $850 is not at all unreasonable for him.