[News] Sportsnet: Patrik Laine ‘prepared for anything’ with future in Winnipeg uncertain

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hanifin+Dube+Frolik+1st for laine and beaulieu ?

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hanifin+Dube+Frolik+1st for laine and beaulieu ?

I think you have to add Hanowski.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hanifin+Dube+Frolik+1st for laine and beaulieu ?

It's amazing how quickly people have soured on Hanifin. Guy is 22 still. Started last year as a 21 year old. 33 points on limited first pp mins and plus 18. Unreal skater with size and has an elite contract. Yeah let's move him dube and a first for a guy who might get 9 mil per year. I like laine but hanifin might be more valuable straight up

[dino7c]

Why do people think what other players on the team make is relevant?

My neighbor bought his house in 2002 and paid half of what I did in 2016

Market price

[blender]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why do people think what other players on the team make is relevant?

My neighbor bought his house in 2002 and paid half of what I did in 2016

Market price

Value in the cap world, obviously. It's not the be all and end all but it is a factor for sure.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blender

Value in the cap world, obviously. It's not the be all and end all but it is a factor for sure.

Guy is gonna make 2M+ more than Scheifele whether they like it or not.

[blender]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Guy is gonna make 2M+ more than Scheifele whether they like it or not.

Correct. I thought the comment came in response to the comment that Hanafin was on an "elite contract". Sorry if I misunderstood. If you are valuing a player for trade, the contract definitely has an impact on that value, no?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It's amazing how quickly people have soured on Hanifin. Guy is 22 still. Started last year as a 21 year old. 33 points on limited first pp mins and plus 18. Unreal skater with size and has an elite contract. Yeah let's move him dube and a first for a guy who might get 9 mil per year. I like laine but hanifin might be more valuable straight up

I just want to point out that I definitely have not soured on Hanifin.

I think he's a great young dman with tons of potential. I just think that Laine would fit the team better and I know that we would have to pay through the teeth to get him if we had any shot at all.

Hanifin would be a loss, for sure, but one that we could hope that Kylington and Valimaki can make up for.

It would allow us to ice a killer top line and a whole new second line, and the trade I proposed allows us to keep brodie this year. The lineup i envisioned would look something like this (if you could sign laine for 9 mil and Tkachuk for 8.5, we would have ~250k in cap left)

Gaudreau-Monahan-Laine
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett
Mangiapane-Backlund-Jankowski
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik

Giordano-Andersson
Kylington-Hamonic
Valiev-Brodie
Valimaki (IR)

Rittich
Talbot


It's a hair-brained idea from the middle of summer- I don't see the jets trading Laine at all, much less so within Canada to a rival in the same conference.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It's amazing how quickly people have soured on Hanifin.

You think a defenseman that most project to be a #3 or #4 is worth more than a younger player who regularly gets compared to Alexander Ovechkin?


Are you high?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blender

Correct. I thought the comment came in response to the comment that Hanafin was on an "elite contract". Sorry if I misunderstood. If you are valuing a player for trade, the contract definitely has an impact on that value, no?

Yes it does...I should have quoted what I was responding to

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It's amazing how quickly people have soured on Hanifin. Guy is 22 still. Started last year as a 21 year old. 33 points on limited first pp mins and plus 18. Unreal skater with size and has an elite contract. Yeah let's move him dube and a first for a guy who might get 9 mil per year. I like laine but hanifin might be more valuable straight up

Yeah and the age curve for d-men is very different than forwards.

Here are a look at four recent d-men taken with top 5 picks and how they performed in their first 4 seasons after joining the NHL as 18 year olds:

Player A: GP-258, G-16, P-89, ATOI-21:44, -8, CF%-50.8% , xGF%-53.6%

Player B: GP-315, G-29, P-125, ATOI-21:13, -28, CF%-53.1%, xGF%-52.9%

Player C: GP-309, G-53, P-134, ATOI-22:07, +16, CF%-49.5%, xGF%-48.6%

Player D: GP - 319, G-23, P-116, ATOI - 18:52, -32,CF%- 53.4%, xGF%- 52.7%

Player A is Hedman, Player B is Jones, Player C is Ekblad, Player D is Hanifin.

The guy has had a pretty good first 4 seasons comparable to the other top picks and is great at driving play. I'd be hesitant to move him for sure, and I think people forget he was taken in the same draft year as Andersson and Kylington who are just breaking into the league now.

Now a move for Laine is one that I'd still look at but to also include Dube, & a 1st is tougher especially when you consider the likely long term cap hits

[blender]

It's interesting that in SuperMatts example the only d man who has bad advanced numbers is the only one that has a good +/-.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Now a move for Laine is one that I'd still look at but to also include Dube, & a 1st is tougher especially when you consider the likely long term cap hits

My only comment on this good analysis would be that yes, it would be tough to make that trade, but that is kind of the point. It would have to be pretty tough for us as I imagine it would be exceptionally tough for winnipeg to let laine go to a western canadian rival.

[BeltlineFan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You think a defenseman that most project to be a #3 or #4 is worth more than a younger player who regularly gets compared to Alexander Ovechkin?


Are you high?

The first three projections I found from his draft say:

Bottom line: Franchise-type cornerstone No. 1 defenseman everybody wants.

Top-pairing two-way defenseman that can be utilized in every situation (ES, PP, PK)

Talented all-around defenseman with good upside.

And Hockey's Future gave him an 8 which is

First-Line Forward/ No. 2 Defenseman / No. 1 Goaltender

Nobody projected him to be a #3/#4 when he was drafted.
And based on SuperMatt's math he seems like he's right on pace for that #1/#2 spot.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by BeltlineFan

Nobody projected him to be a #3/#4 when he was drafted.
And based on SuperMatt's math he seems like he's right on pace for that #1/#2 spot.

Where he was projected when he was drafted is not the same as where he is and what he is looking to be developing into now. It's why I was absolutely ####ting myself when the Canucks were rumoured to be moving the 7th over all last season for him. Literally every d-man (except the one the Oilers took) was projecting to be better.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It's amazing how quickly people have soured on Hanifin. Guy is 22 still. Started last year as a 21 year old. 33 points on limited first pp mins and plus 18. Unreal skater with size and has an elite contract. Yeah let's move him dube and a first for a guy who might get 9 mil per year. I like laine but hanifin might be more valuable straight up

I agree with you about Hanifin (not in regards to being as valuable as Laine)... but elite contract? Do those two words go together?

[BeltlineFan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Where he was projected when he was drafted is not the same as where he is and what he is looking to be developing into now. It's why I was absolutely ####ting myself when the Canucks were rumoured to be moving the 7th over all last season for him. Literally every d-man (except the one the Oilers took) was projecting to be better.

You're right, but he already looks comfortable on the second pairing. Maybe you think he's done developing at age 22?

And where the other defensemen from that draft project now is irrelevant, he could be the 10th best and still be top pairing on a team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You think a defenseman that most project to be a #3 or #4 is worth more than a younger player who regularly gets compared to Alexander Ovechkin?


Are you high?

Who are these 'most'?

Hanifin was drafted 5th overall because he projects to be a #1, if not a franchise defenseman. And as SuperMatt18 pointed out, he is on roughly the same development curve as other guys drafted similarly, who have continued to develop towards being a #1.

People seem to forget now, but after 4 years, there were a LOT of question marks around Hedman, and a lot of people thinking he was a bit of a disappointment, and clearly not going to be the #1, franchise guy that he was drafted to be. Then it all came together.

Defense is hard. And learning how to play it well takes time.

[FlamesAddiction]

So wait... there are actually people disappointed with Hanifin?

He is right on track and paid accordingly for his contributions so far.

[bubbsy]

This thread has really sidetracked. The trade proposal itself indicates how valued hanafin is, not the opposite.