Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[oldschoolcalgary]

^ I don't think people are freaked out by the name or the looks, rather that it appears to be used in a lot of the mass shootings and that with any shooting that involves double digit casualties, the weapon used is usually an AR-15.

one can parse why that is, whether its the light weight, the ability to customize it, low recoil, muzzle velocity etc

I am not expert on the AR-15, but presumably, there are cheaper weapons out there, as the AR-15 can range from 700 US up to 2000 depending on how its customized...

if the reports are right about Dayton, i am curious to know whether another weapon could have achieved that much carnage in a similar amount of time... Dayton police say it was around 30s from the time the shooter started and the time police engaged.

[Galakanokis]

No gun compares to the menacing shape of an egg!

[oldschoolcalgary]

In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

Really should surprise no one; these weapons were commissioned by the US army during Vietnam as a result of their “phenomenal lethality”

Rhee is most famous at home for saving the life of Arizona Rep. Gabby Giffords after she was shot point-blank in the head with a handgun fired by a mass shooter in 2011. “A handgun [wound] is simply a stabbing with a bullet,” says Rhee. “It goes in like a nail.” With the high-velocity rounds of the AR-15, he adds, “its as if you shot somebody with a Coke can.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...choice-107819/

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

^ I don't think people are freaked out by the name or the looks, rather that it appears to be used in a lot of the mass shootings and that with any shooting that involves double digit casualties, the weapon used is usually an AR-15.

one can parse why that is, whether its the light weight, the ability to customize it, low recoil, muzzle velocity etc

I am not expert on the AR-15, but presumably, there are cheaper weapons out there, as the AR-15 can range from 700 US up to 2000 depending on how its customized...

if the reports are right about Dayton, i am curious to know whether another weapon could have achieved that much carnage in a similar amount of time... Dayton police say it was around 30s from the time the shooter started and the time police engaged.

There are cheaper and more expensive versions of the AR out there, the design itself is licensed out, you can spend 400 or 2000 on an AR 15 if you want

[missdpuck]

Rosemary Square ( if any of you have visited West Palm Beach you would probably know it as CityPlace) is in lockdown due to reports of a suspicious armed person.

Whew. Almost went there today to see a movie.

Bookstore Barnes and Noble moved out years ago. The Anthropologie store is really the only thing that appeals to me there now. That’s a good thing. No compelling reason to go there.

Anywho, streets are blocked off . We’ll see what happens.

Sad that we’re waiting for the next one.

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[Locke]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Rosemary Square ( if any of you have visited West Palm Beach you would probably know it as CityPlace) is in lockdown due to reports of a suspicious armed person.

Whew. Almost went there today to see a movie.

Bookstore Barnes and Noble moved out years ago. The Anthropologie store is really the only thing that appeals to me there now. That’s a good thing. No compelling reason to go there.

Anywho, streets are blocked off . We’ll see what happens.

Sad that we’re waiting for the next one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We're not even dedicating news to them anymore. They've become so common-place they're all just lumped in together.

Its almost as if the lunatics feed off each other in some sick game of 'body count' one-up-manship

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Locke

We're not even dedicating news to them anymore. They've become so common-place they're all just lumped in together.

Its almost as if the lunatics feed off each other in some sick game of 'body count' one-up-manship

Not almost. According to the article about the 8chan founder wanting the site shut down, they call it a high score

Sick ####s

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Locke

We're not even dedicating news to them anymore. They've become so common-place they're all just lumped in together.



Its almost as if the lunatics feed off each other in some sick game of 'body count' one-up-manship

This is so true.

I’m going to carry a stack of Uline catalogs around with me for self defense.

Seriously, it’s gotten to that point of absurdity for me ( and so many I know) that all you can do is make sick jokes to stay reasonably sane.

Now I second-guess hopping on the train to Miami- now we have the beautiful new Brightline high speed train that was taken over by Virgin. It’s
a nice ride.

Earlier today someone called a Walmart in Valrico
and threatened to shoot it up. Okay Cletus, now you’re on the news. Happy? Jeesh.

West Palm lockdown was just lifted. There are tweets of law enforcement running around with long rifles. Who knows what happened.

An Israeli family runs a kiosk in a local mall. A while ago I told them I always worried about a friend of mine who moved back to Tel Aviv a few years ago.

They assured me that she’s the one who should worry about me, as she was infinitely safer over there than we are in the mall.

Not sure if that’s true, but they did make a point. Anyone can walk into that mall.






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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by nik-

Hey everyone, a gun platform that allows for 100 round drum magazine isn't any more dangerous than other weapons, it just looks more dangerous.

Which of the following do you think is more dangerous?

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

^ I don't think people are freaked out by the name or the looks, rather that it appears to be used in a lot of the mass shootings and that with any shooting that involves double digit casualties, the weapon used is usually an AR-15.

Yeah, people freak out over an AR-15. It's the name (Assault Rifle [sic]), the color (the black rifle), the look of it (it's a military rifle - no, its not), and so on. It's a semi-automatic rifle that fires a a lot of rounds in a short period of time. Lots of guns can do that, but the AR-15 has a special place in people's minds.

one can parse why that is, whether its the light weight, the ability to customize it, low recoil, muzzle velocity etc

All of the above make it a prime gun to own. Plus, they are cheap and widely available. Plus the ammo is cheap, cheap, cheap. What not to like if you're a psycho looking to kill dozens? Fortunately most people who own them are not and are actually very responsible gun owners who respect the weapon and the danger they can do.

I am not expert on the AR-15, but presumably, there are cheaper weapons out there, as the AR-15 can range from 700 US up to 2000 depending on how its customized...

You can buy a decent one for under $400 these days. You can build a high quality one for $500 if you know what you are doing and select the right components. If you want to go all tacticool, then yes, you can deck out your rifle to some really ridiculous levels. If you do want to go crazy, optics alone can push your weapon into the thousands of dollars. But why spend money on optics if you're just going to spray and pray?

if the reports are right about Dayton, i am curious to know whether another weapon could have achieved that much carnage in a similar amount of time... Dayton police say it was around 30s from the time the shooter started and the time police engaged.

Great question. Anything with an extended magazine could have been just as deadly in the same situation. Could argue that a handgun with an extended magazine could have been more damaging since it is much easier to conceal and arguably easier to reload in a shorter period of time. The AR-15 is always going to be more deadly as it has a higher velocity round, but it is a tougher weapon to be stealthy with and slip into confined spaces where maximum damage can occur quickly. A smaller weapon is best for close quarter combat, but you need proper training to make those things work. There's the rub. Training makes all the difference regardless of the weapon platform. A well trained individual with two 15 round pistol magazines can do more damage that a person with an untrained individual with an AR-15.

[missdpuck]

I’ll take the pink one! Yard sale in Eustis, Florida.



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[Thor]

The problem is not banning semi-auto rifles, its freaking creating Federal laws and not allowing states to dictate these gun laws anymore.


Background checks
All sales registered, no off the books sales
Training and licensing mandatory to get a license
Renewing licenses every 5 years (gun safety, etc)
Toughening laws on large mags, bullet types, exemptions for larger military collectibles.


Can add more I'm sure, but if this is not done as Federal laws, nothing will change. Even with these laws it will take a long time to see any real effects.

[CaptainCrunch]

Automatic life sentences with no parole no matter what the crime is if it involves using or stealing a fire arm, or threatening with a fire arm.


$50,000 fines for the improper storage or use of a fire arm.


Require gun owners to purchase super expensive fire arms insurance, and if you're caught with an un insured fire arm its a 2 year prison term at hard labor.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, people freak out over an AR-15. It's the name (Assault Rifle [sic]), the color (the black rifle), the look of it (it's a military rifle - no, its not), and so on. It's a semi-automatic rifle that fires a a lot of rounds in a short period of time. Lots of guns can do that, but the AR-15 has a special place in people's minds.

i don't know if i agree - people freak out with respect to the shooting first and foremost; whether or not its an AR-15 type rifle is happenstance. People expect it to be an AR-15 type rifle as that seems to be the weapon used in most of the mass shootings of late.

IIRC, you have some expertise in weapons, so i am wondering what distinguishes the civilian version AR-15 from the military version like the M-16? is it purely the ability to go full automatic with the military weapon?

based on the articles quoting the medical personnel who have seen these injuries up close, the AR-15 does significantly more damage due to the velocity of the bullet than compared to a pistol for example. So, the choice of an AR could be based on how lethal it is compared to something like a shotgun for example

the ARs have a special place in people's minds because they have been the weapon of choice in the majority of the mass shootings that have resulted in double digit casualties...otherwise, most ppl here would have no idea of the difference in the weapons in your image.

[KelVarnsen]

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone outside the military would need a semi auto gun.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by New Era

Which of the following do you think is more dangerous?






Yeah, people freak out over an AR-15. It's the name (Assault Rifle [sic]), the color (the black rifle), the look of it (it's a military rifle - no, its not), and so on. It's a semi-automatic rifle that fires a a lot of rounds in a short period of time. Lots of guns can do that, but the AR-15 has a special place in people's minds.



All of the above make it a prime gun to own. Plus, they are cheap and widely available. Plus the ammo is cheap, cheap, cheap. What not to like if you're a psycho looking to kill dozens? Fortunately most people who own them are not and are actually very responsible gun owners who respect the weapon and the danger they can do.



You can buy a decent one for under $400 these days. You can build a high quality one for $500 if you know what you are doing and select the right components. If you want to go all tacticool, then yes, you can deck out your rifle to some really ridiculous levels. If you do want to go crazy, optics alone can push your weapon into the thousands of dollars. But why spend money on optics if you're just going to spray and pray?



Great question. Anything with an extended magazine could have been just as deadly in the same situation. Could argue that a handgun with an extended magazine could have been more damaging since it is much easier to conceal and arguably easier to reload in a shorter period of time. The AR-15 is always going to be more deadly as it has a higher velocity round, but it is a tougher weapon to be stealthy with and slip into confined spaces where maximum damage can occur quickly. A smaller weapon is best for close quarter combat, but you need proper training to make those things work. There's the rub. Training makes all the difference regardless of the weapon platform. A well trained individual with two 15 round pistol magazines can do more damage that a person with an untrained individual with an AR-15.

AR stands for the ArmaLite rifle, the company that designed it, not assault, they designed it for the US army in the 50's, ironically its early history as the M16 it was considered a dog, the FN was considered a way better gun (third one down in your picture I believe), the trouble is most of these wack jobs train for their wackery, they are pretty damn good at killing herds of people, they join a range and train on line for thousands of hours

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone outside the military would need a semi auto gun.

Need? No one needs that weapon.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i don't know if i agree - people freak out with respect to the shooting first and foremost; whether or not its an AR-15 type rifle is happenstance. People expect it to be an AR-15 type rifle as that seems to be the weapon used in most of the mass shootings of late.

IIRC, you have some expertise in weapons, so i am wondering what distinguishes the civilian version AR-15 from the military version like the M-16? is it purely the ability to go full automatic with the military weapon?

based on the articles quoting the medical personnel who have seen these injuries up close, the AR-15 does significantly more damage due to the velocity of the bullet than compared to a pistol for example. So, the choice of an AR could be based on how lethal it is compared to something like a shotgun for example

the ARs have a special place in people's minds because they have been the weapon of choice in the majority of the mass shootings that have resulted in double digit casualties...otherwise, most ppl here would have no idea of the difference in the weapons in your image.

The m-16 has a full auto selector as well as a 3 round burst selection, wheras the AR-15 has a single shot and semi-auto selector.


The AR-15 is rated at 23 rounds per minute in semi-auto mode, has a errective firing range of 600 yards.


The M-16 is rated at up to 60 rounds per minute in semi automatic mode and about 700 rounds per minute in full auto. Its effective firing range is up to 800 yards.

[direwolf]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1158405255538909185

[shogged]

nvm

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i don't know if i agree - people freak out with respect to the shooting first and foremost; whether or not its an AR-15 type rifle is happenstance. People expect it to be an AR-15 type rifle as that seems to be the weapon used in most of the mass shootings of late.

IIRC, you have some expertise in weapons, so i am wondering what distinguishes the civilian version AR-15 from the military version like the M-16? is it purely the ability to go full automatic with the military weapon?

based on the articles quoting the medical personnel who have seen these injuries up close, the AR-15 does significantly more damage due to the velocity of the bullet than compared to a pistol for example. So, the choice of an AR could be based on how lethal it is compared to something like a shotgun for example

the ARs have a special place in people's minds because they have been the weapon of choice in the majority of the mass shootings that have resulted in double digit casualties...otherwise, most ppl here would have no idea of the difference in the weapons in your image.

The AR-15 actually pre-dates the M16. The AR-15 was a smaller round version of the AR-10. The former being a 7.62x51 round (.308) versus the smaller 7.62x45 (.223). Captain identifies some good differences between the AR-15 and the M-16, but you can build an AR-15 capable of similar range with the addition of a heavier barrel. The M-16 was designed for the higher pressure 7.62x45 round, providing for longer range and as a result more durability. If you're building or buying an AR-15, buy one that is designed for the higher pressure round. You can shoot the lower pressure round through your 7.62x45 certified rifle, but should not shoot the hotter round through your .223. The additional pressure will wear on your rifle and could result in a catastrophic failure. A heavy barrel is always a good addition if you're going to put lots of rounds down range in one session, which is the real strength of the M-16.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

AR stands for the ArmaLite rifle, the company that designed it, not assault, they designed it for the US army in the 50's, ironically its early history as the M16 it was considered a dog, the FN was considered a way better gun (third one down in your picture I believe), the trouble is most of these wack jobs train for their wackery, they are pretty damn good at killing herds of people, they join a range and train on line for thousands of hours

Completely aware of what AR stands for, hence the [sic] following assault rifle. These are just narratives you hear about the rifle itself. I don't mind people criticizing guns and gun ownership, but at least have an idea what you're talking about.

The FN was a better weapon, but the Americans were pumping those M-16s out like crazy and managed to create versions that corrected the problems and would ultimately surpass the FN as a weapon (IMO).

The point of the image was to point out that the gun you sometimes think is the most dangerous is the one that isn't. The guns in that image are all .308 variants. The top one being the venerable, and completely awesome, Springfield M1A, the civilian version of the M14. Arguably the best and most dangerous of the guns in this image. Incredibly accurate but kicks like an army mule. The second is the Century Arms C308 Sporter, a nice inexpensive .308 that doesn't leave you black and blue after a day of shooting. The third from the top does look like a FN FAL, but I'm not 100% on it. There's a couple things that make me unsure, but it does have the right silhouette of the FN. The bottom is the straight AR-10 carbine - can't make out the manufacturer - which is probably the easiest of the bunch to shoot, but also the worst of the bunch IMO.