08-05-2019, 12:37 PM
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#661
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Not trying to come up with reasons at all.
But internally it's a bid divider between bringing him back if you can't find a Brodie for a winger deal and not.
Case A - Frolik very very unhappy and disgruntled in the dressing room.
Case B - Frolik unhappy, mentions that to his agent, and the agent takes it further than he intended.
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How about C - Frolik is a pro and realizes that while he may be unhappy, the best thing he can do when it comes to the actual game is to try and perform at his very best.
I’m under no illusion that every player on the team is always happy and buddy buddy with the coach and their teammates. Guess I find that easier to believe than agents acting against their players wishes.
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08-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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#662
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
How about C - Frolik is a pro and realizes that while he may be unhappy, the best thing he can do when it comes to the actual game is to try and perform at his very best.
I’m under no illusion that every player on the team is always happy and buddy buddy with the coach and their teammates. Guess I find that easier to believe than agents acting against their players wishes.
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I agree with you.
An agent might occasionally act on their own in some situations, but I don't think they are going to say things publicly that could mess with their client's life and get their client traded against their will. That would easily be a fireable offense.
Having said that, I hope we keep Frolik and let him play out his contract.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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08-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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#663
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
How about C - Frolik is a pro and realizes that while he may be unhappy, the best thing he can do when it comes to the actual game is to try and perform at his very best.
I’m under no illusion that every player on the team is always happy and buddy buddy with the coach and their teammates. Guess I find that easier to believe than agents acting against their players wishes.
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Sigh ...
Think "against" is a bit of a stretch as well.
There are times when a guy just wants out. That's fine. There are times a player wants out and changes his mind. All I was saying was that IF his agent took it further than he intended then maybe there's a soft landing spot this season and they don't deal him.
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08-05-2019, 12:52 PM
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#664
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Resident Videologist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Sigh ...
Think "against" is a bit of a stretch as well.
There are times when a guy just wants out. That's fine. There are times a player wants out and changes his mind. All I was saying was that IF his agent took it further than he intended then maybe there's a soft landing spot this season and they don't deal him.
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Freeway seemed pretty confident Walsh and Frolik were on the same page. So I wonder if Frolik simply changing his mind makes the most sense, though its clear Treliving still tried to make the Zucker trade at the deadline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeway
I guarantee you, Frolik spoke with the coach about usage, then his agent talked to the GM about usage and when neither worked, Frolik allowed the agent to go public. No way Walsh sneezes without his client's say-so.
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08-05-2019, 12:58 PM
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#665
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Freeway seemed pretty confident Walsh and Frolik were on the same page. So I wonder if Frolik simply changing his mind makes the most sense, though its clear Treliving still tried to make the Zucker trade at the deadline.
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Agreed.
Directing his agent, and having his agent do more than you expected though are both possible.
Either way all good. This was never that big a deal to me, can't believe it's caused such a piss up.
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08-05-2019, 01:00 PM
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#666
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Freeway seemed pretty confident Walsh and Frolik were on the same page. So I wonder if Frolik simply changing his mind makes the most sense, though its clear Treliving still tried to make the Zucker trade at the deadline.
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No #### he was confident, because Walsh did it again after the firestorm it created and he hasn't lost any clients as far as I know, let alone frolik, the guy in question the agent was acting on behalf of.
Mostly this is about Neal. Neal was screwing up the icetime allocation, and that was coming from the top. Bennett's camp also complained to treliving about usage and then got promoted to the second line.
Even if Frolik was very happy now which seems like a stretch he probably still has to go so the flames can ice a competitive roster, I just think that now the offers of frolik for a late pick are gone and frolik with 20% retained for a late pick is the new musical chairs reality.
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08-05-2019, 01:05 PM
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#667
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
No #### he was confident, because Walsh did it again after the firestorm it created and he hasn't lost any clients as far as I know, let alone frolik, the guy in question the agent was acting on behalf of.
Mostly this is about Neal. Neal was screwing up the icetime allocation, and that was coming from the top. Bennett's camp also complained to treliving about usage and then got promoted to the second line.
Even if Frolik was very happy now which seems like a stretch he probably still has to go so the flames can ice a competitive roster, I just think that now the offers of frolik for a late pick are gone and frolik with 20% retained for a late pick is the new musical chairs reality.
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Yeah the whole season seemed to be about forward #6.
Neal! Nope doesn't work
Frolik? Nope not generating offence
Bennett? Good for a while, no offence
Back to Frolik, offence comes.
Single biggest issue this summer was forward 6 and they still don't have it solved.
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08-05-2019, 01:08 PM
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#668
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Yeah the whole season seemed to be about forward #6.
Neal! Nope doesn't work
Frolik? Nope not generating offence
Bennett? Good for a while, no offence
Back to Frolik, offence comes.
Single biggest issue this summer was forward 6 and they still don't have it solved.
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There's just no way to solve it given the cap restrictions imo.
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08-05-2019, 01:11 PM
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#669
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
There's just no way to solve it given the cap restrictions imo.
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If the Flames can move Frolik while not taking back equal salary they can trade Brodie or Hamonic to fill the top 6 need
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08-05-2019, 01:11 PM
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#670
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#1 Goaltender
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I can’t fault Frolik for being unhappy that he was scratched. There has never been any point in time where our team had 12 better options at forward than him. Guy can do it all pretty well out there.
Also can’t fault the org for panicking at how terrible Neal looked and trying to desperately get something out of him. At the start of the year he looked like Lazar’s hockey IQ with Jagr’s speed and Chris Stewart’s effort level.
Still, don’t think Frolík should ever come out of the lineup. He can play bottom 6 as well
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08-05-2019, 01:12 PM
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#671
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
If the Flames can move Frolik while not taking back equal salary they can trade Brodie or Hamonic to fill the top 6 need
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Palmieri would be interesting to target. Lindholm could then play second line RW and take the face offs for Backlund
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08-05-2019, 01:13 PM
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#672
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
There's just no way to solve it given the cap restrictions imo.
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It's the plan B for sure, where Brodie goes for a pick and then you retain Frolik.
I think plan A has always been trade Brodie for a top six winger and then Frolik goes for a pick.
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08-05-2019, 01:18 PM
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#673
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Franchise Player
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Plan A was Zucker at the deadline and presumably trade a defenseman at the draft to recover picks.
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08-05-2019, 01:23 PM
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#674
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Had the rumored Zucker and Kadri deals come to fruition the team would have about $700K more in cap space (Save 1.9M on Kadri gain 1.2M on Zucker). I do think this roster would easily be among the very best in the NHL.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Kadri-Bennett
Zucker-Backlund-Mangipane
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik
Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Kylington
Rittich
Talbot
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08-05-2019, 02:10 PM
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#675
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
Had the rumored Zucker and Kadri deals come to fruition the team would have about $700K more in cap space (Save 1.9M on Kadri gain 1.2M on Zucker). I do think this roster would easily be among the very best in the NHL.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Kadri-Bennett
Zucker-Backlund-Mangipane
Lucic-Ryan-Czarnik
Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Kylington
Rittich
Talbot
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That is a better lineup than the current version but aren’t you still likely over the cap unless we’re back to this 21 man roster business?
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08-05-2019, 02:12 PM
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#676
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo45
I can’t fault Frolik for being unhappy that he was scratched. There has never been any point in time where our team had 12 better options at forward than him. Guy can do it all pretty well out there.
Also can’t fault the org for panicking at how terrible Neal looked and trying to desperately get something out of him. At the start of the year he looked like Lazar’s hockey IQ with Jagr’s speed and Chris Stewart’s effort level.
Still, don’t think Frolík should ever come out of the lineup. He can play bottom 6 as well
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My only Frolik complaint in his time in Calgary is his propensity for lazy stick fouls.
His first healthy scratch was directly related to two "not moving your feet" penalties.
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08-05-2019, 02:31 PM
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#677
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
That is a better lineup than the current version but aren’t you still likely over the cap unless we’re back to this 21 man roster business?
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It all depends on what Tkachuk signs for I suppose that roster has more space than the current lineup but one less Dman. Sign Petrovic or whoever for the minimum. Maybe call Dube up and save a couple hundred grand by sending Czarnik down.
It would be incredibly tight but going from Brodie, Jankowski, Neal, Frolik, Pelletier to Kadri, Lucic, Zucker makes this a better team today for sure
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08-05-2019, 03:49 PM
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#678
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#1 Goaltender
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Was frolik unhappy that he wasn't top 6 minutes? Or was he unhappy that NEAL was taking his spot on that line? Two big differences. Because in the former situation frolik is entitled and the issue might come back this year if he gets relegated to 3rd or 4th line duties. In the latter situation frolik is a team player who wants what he earns (eats what he kills), which is the culture of hockey. And so if Bennett or Dube or Mangiapane or Lucic fit better into that 2-RW spot this year, Frolik will act like a pro and accept his lesser role.
Fwiw, I can see a player thinking "hmmm, when I #### up I get the pressbox. When this guy ####s up, he continues to get quality minutes and exceeds me on the depth chart" And I can see being pretty unhappy in that situation. But the situation was seemingly resolved by year end with Frolik getting top 6 minutes in the playoffs and Neal seeing the pressbox. And even more so with Neal getting the shaft to Siberia.
So I wouldnt be shocked or upset if Frolik sticks around for 19-20 season from a hockey perspective. From an asset management perspective, it seems a bit odd to not get a return for any of Brodie, Hamonic or frolik heading into their UFA years. It also seems a bit odd that flames wouldn't want Kylington in a top-6 role to start the year. So I would have thought Brodie or Hamonic turn into a top-6 upgrade.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts
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08-05-2019, 04:48 PM
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#679
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Although Frolik was unhappy at points, I never got the sense that he was mailing it in, so I am not too worried if he stays. I also think he stands a decent chance to get on the 2nd line a lot.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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08-05-2019, 05:20 PM
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#680
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Franchise Player
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I am happy with Frolik remaining on the team. He excels at the forecheck, and he does play with a non-stop motor, while adding to the overall team-speed of the team. Bingo might be right in that he took a few boneheaded penalties, but overall Frolik helps Calgary a lot more than he hurts them.
With that being said, I would welcome a trade in which Frolik and his entire cap hit gets shipped out for nothing in return, as I do see him as the most replaceable player who can realistically be moved with a cap hit of 4 million or higher. Dube and Mangiapane could hopefully help backfill his forecheck, and I do think they are both better playmakers (though they haven't necessarily shown it consistently enough yet). Either way, both Dube and Mangiapane could benefit from increased ice-time, and I think Bennett should be getting more ice-time as well.
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