[News] Flames buyout Michael Stone's contract after clearing waivers

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Atrocious?

Good/great deals:
Derek Ryan (2018)
Michael Frolik (2015)
Deryk Engelland (2014)
David Rittich (2016)

Average deals:
Jonas Hiller (2014)
Austin Czarnik (2018)
Chad Johnson (2016)

Bad deals:
Troy Brouwer (2016)
James Neal (2018)
Mason Raymond (2014)

There are other deals that have been pretty inconsequential, but to call this atrocious is to not really be paying attention around the league.

James Neal was his biggest failure with Troy Brouwer being a close 2nd, but Tree learned from the Troy ordeal and didn't want to go down a 2nd year with Neal. Make the judgement that the player isn't a fit and move on.

The contract amount and term on his two biggest failures is significantly higher than most of the other guys you listed. But sure, even if I agree with you, Treliving has had 2 big failures with signings worth millions of dollars. Should he be gone if he makes another one next season? At one point do you stop giving someone chances.. because I don't know what you guys do for work but my bosses would not be happy if I am burning millions of dollars each year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Atrocious?

Good/great deals:
Derek Ryan (2018)
Michael Frolik (2015)
Deryk Engelland (2014)
David Rittich (2016)

Average deals:
Jonas Hiller (2014)
Austin Czarnik (2018)
Chad Johnson (2016)

Bad deals:
Troy Brouwer (2016)
James Neal (2018)
Mason Raymond (2014)

There are other deals that have been pretty inconsequential, but to call this atrocious is to not really be paying attention around the league.

James Neal was his biggest failure with Troy Brouwer being a close 2nd, but Tree learned from the Troy ordeal and didn't want to go down a 2nd year with Neal. Make the judgement that the player isn't a fit and move on.

Frolik is on a good to great deal and he appears to be untradable? Hiller was one of the worst goalies in Flames history for half his contract and he is average? Rittich is a stretch to put in the UFA signings category, I suppose he was a UFA but he was an undrafted player who worked out more than what is usually considered as a UFA July 1st type signing. I think it is definitely fair to say that overall he is bottom third of the league in his UFA signings, maybe not attrocious but far below average.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Second place over all and a "should be fired" take... hmmm, what's the opposite of "overrate him substantially"?

Yes, second overall team that had top players limp into the playoffs and then get crushed in the playoffs. How about the Flames repeat last season or at least win the division before we continue to bring up this second place team statements. As of right now, I think last year was fun but a lot of luck. I am willing to happily eat crow on this but I dont this team is going to be anywhere close to #1 in the West this season.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The contract amount and term on his two biggest failures is significantly higher than most of the other guys you listed. But sure, even if I agree with you, Treliving has had 2 big failures with signings worth millions of dollars. Should he be gone if he makes another one next season? At one point do you stop giving someone chances.. because I don't know what you guys do for work but my bosses would not be happy if I am burning millions of dollars each year.

The team just finished 1st in the West. At what point do you stop giving him chances? No time soon, in my eyes. Dude has been building a team that is just now rounding out. What are his bosses thinking? Probably that their GM just put together the best team in the West and the most successful regular season they've had in decades.

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Frolik is on a good to great deal and he appears to be untradable? Hiller was one of the worst goalies in Flames history for half his contract and he is average? Rittich is a stretch to put in the UFA signings category, I suppose he was a UFA but he was an undrafted player who worked out more than what is usually considered as a UFA July 1st type signing.

So he was a free agent, but there's no credit given because...reasons. You have no reason to think Frolik can't be traded, because you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Frolik is a good value player and has been his entire time here.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Quite frankly, I dont hate Treliving but feel that people on here overrate him substantially. I think if Treliving was the GM of the Oilers, right now we would have a bunch of posts in the "no good tread" talking about his atrocious signings.

He came in and started off well. However, i personally think that he is grasping at straws right now to try and get out of this cap situation (waited too long to make the necessary moves). This is usually when most GMs make some really dumb moves when their back is up against the wall and I would be more comfortable bringing in someone else than a Sutter situation all over again when he left with some horrendous deals.

Every GM has a shelf life imo. It is important to realize that before it is too late. I am just suggesting that people give him way too much crediit when really this cap situation is because of his own decisions (some really bad ones)

So let me get this right. Playoff appearances, graduated a number of players of the last three years, your top stars locked up at great contracts, improved drafting, 2nd in the nhl but were overating him?

Hes had 2 deals for impact players that were nixed for reasons beyond his control.one trade and cap isnt a problem. If you really want to nitpick i can see the signings as egregious but every gm has bad contracts and personally feel gg is his worst mistake by a longshot.

I dont remeber this franchise being anywhere near as good a shape as its in today since the 80's. If thats bad gming ill take it.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If Treliving is GM of the Oilers I'm betting Ron MacLean is drunk off his ass celebrating the 4th Oiler cup. /s ?

Not unless Treliving brings every scout and coach along with him. The GM can only do so much and the Oilers have a hard time developing a logo, nevermind a prospect.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So he was a free agent, but there's no credit given because...reasons.

Well BT bombed with Kenny Morrison then because that was another UFA signing that you did not list. The Rittich thing was just an observation, I suspect if Rittich was in the minors and Gillies was the goalie who broke out you would not have listed Rittich, just seemed like a cherry picked addition.

Frolik as good to great is laughable. Hiller as average is also laughable, the guy was the worst goalie in the NHL for half his contract.

[The Cobra]

Treliving has done a very good job as GM of the Flames.

Sure he's had some swings and misses, but what GM hasn't, unless he's afraid to swing.

It's a tough job, and it's impossible to bat 1.000.

The Flames are a very competitive club. That's the standard he needs to meet, not perfection.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Fan69

So let me get this right. Playoff appearances, graduated a number of players of the last three years, your top stars locked up at great contracts, improved drafting, 2nd in the nhl but were overating him?

Hes had 2 deals for impact players that were nixed for reasons beyond his control.one trade and cap isnt a problem. If you really want to nitpick i can see the signings as egregious but every gm has bad contracts and personally feel gg is his worst mistake by a longshot.

I dont remeber this franchise being anywhere near as good a shape as its in today since the 80's. If thats bad gming ill take it.

First, playoff appearances are not happening every year and it tells me that you are okay with mediocrity because I think its also important to win in the playoffs. Lets even start by being competitive in first round series.

We also have no idea why those trades were nixed and the circumstances. You may be right.. but it is also possible Treliving knew very early on that Kadri was not going to waive but he decided to pursue it anyway (missing out on other deals) because he thought he could convince Kadri. We just dont know the details so I don't know if it was totally out of his control or he just made bad decisions.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well BT bombed with Kenny Morrison then because that was another UFA signing that you did not list. The Rittich thing was just an observation, I suspect if Rittich was in the minors and Gillies was the goalie who broke out you would not have listed Rittich, just seemed like a cherry picked addition.

Frolik as good to great is laughable. Hiller as average is also laughable, the guy was the worst goalie in the NHL for half his contract.

Hiller was bad in his second year. In his first, he was just fine and was darn good in the POs for the most part. And when he wasn't, Ramo was (and vice versa). So, yeah, average.

So if Rittich hadn't been a good FA signing, he wouldn't have been listed? But he was a good FA signing, so that's a weird hypothetical.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hiller was bad in his second year. In his first, he was just fine and was darn good in the POs for the most part. And when he wasn't, Ramo was (and vice versa). So, yeah, average.

So if Rittich hadn't been a good FA signing, he wouldn't have been listed? But he was a good FA signing, so that's a weird hypothetical.

If you are listing Rittich then please list all of the other random European players that have been signed over the past few years and have done nothing. I mean, if Rittich goes into the great pile, the others should go into the "Awful" pile.

[VladtheImpaler]

You guys are really getting caught up in this. Let's say the fact that Treliving leads the league in buyouts is a sign that his UFA record is not good at all. Otherwise, I agree with Bingo's post re Flames management...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by keenan87

If you are listing Rittich then please list all of the other random European players that have been signed over the past few years and have done nothing. I mean, if Rittich goes into the great pile, the others should go into the "Awful" pile.

Well, it depends on expectations and the type of contract, doesn't it? Signing a Euro to a minor league contract and having them play minor league hockey isn't awful. If one breaks out like Rittich, then it's pretty much a home run.

If you sign someone like Cervenka to play in the NHL on an NHL contract and he doesn't pan out, that's a fail.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Question.

If Treliving trades neither Frolik or Brodie, who does he move to clear up cap space?

Who would be the third option?

[djsFlames]

Just because it's the first off-season where we've been unable to make earth shattering deals to improve the club due to RFAs, doesn't mean Treliving's hit a wall or painted himself into a corner and can't continue to tweak.

We were an inch away from landing Kadri for Brodie despite our circumstances, so the man is still pulling strings. On the whole we make a lot more noise in offseasons than most clubs do and have been pretty spoiled. I think most teams have had to sit on their hands more this offseason than they'd have liked because of the increasing price tag for young talent and the fact that the cap isn't going up as much as anticipated.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Question.

If Treliving trades neither Frolik or Brodie, who does he move to clear up cap space?

Who would be the third option?

Hard to say. Hamonic was on the table for a while there too.

Czarnik?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Question.

If Treliving trades neither Frolik or Brodie, who does he move to clear up cap space?

Who would be the third option?

I would have said Bennett prior to his being signed. Now I'd say Hamonic.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Question.

If Treliving trades neither Frolik or Brodie, who does he move to clear up cap space?

Who would be the third option?

It depends on what Tkachuk and Mangiapane sign for.

If Tkachuk signs a cheaper bridge deal, they can probably start the season with the roster as is.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hard to say. Hamonic was on the table for a while there too.

Yeah, I get the feeling teams are asking for Hamonic.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hiller was bad in his second year. In his first, he was just fine and was darn good in the POs for the most part. And when he wasn't, Ramo was (and vice versa). So, yeah, average.

In Hillers first year he was 17th out of 37 goalies in save percentage amongst goalies who played 30 games or more. So slightly better than the average of 18.5.

Second year he did not play 30 games due to his level of play so he mainly was a 4.5 million dollar bench warmer. But his save percentage would have placed him 42nd out of 42 if he had played 30 games, the worst in the NHL and .022 behind second worst.

I guess average in year one and worst in the NHL by a long shot in year two is average for some.