[News] Flames buyout Michael Stone's contract after clearing waivers

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

After reading that thread CHL deserves his victory lap.

How about this guy? He called it exactly.

Originally Posted by Parallex

I don't think it's possible for someone else to get how much I loath this deal. Mark my words this is a Brouwer contract except on the backend.

[Strange Brew]

Flames had spent big $’s and gave up significant assets to build a top quality top 4 on D before the Stone signing. Look around the league and you just don’t see bottom pairing D signed for this kind of money.

If you’re going to overspend, don’t do it for the guys that play the least minutes.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Yeah, I'm in the camp that Stone was a decent acquisition at the time. A string of bad luck and the kids being better than expected made him expendable.

I would also add that if the Brodie for Kadri deal had gone through that we probably would have kept Stone for this year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would also add that if the Brodie for Kadri deal had gone through that we probably would have kept Stone for this year.

Was Jankowski supposedly included in that deal? Wondering because Flames would still have the same cap problems, although dumping Frolik would be easier to swallow having upgraded at forward.

Say Brodie was gone, what would you rather have - Stone at $3.5 or a bought Stone and say Fantanberg for around $2 million and $1.2 million of dead money next year?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Yeah, I'm in the camp that Stone was a decent acquisition at the time. A string of bad luck and the kids being better than expected made him expendable.

Only in a bad acquisition does expendable equal untradable.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

The players and their agents keep pushing for salaries that they don't deserve... and that's a problem for sure... I know it's leaving money on the table, but it's really the right thing to do for your career (i.e. to take a lower salary - what you deserve, take less term and prove yourself). Lucic is not worth 6 million for example.... I love him at 1/2 that. The problem also lies on the GMs, it does take two to tango so to speak. Chiarelli, when he was in Edmonton is a great example - he reminds me of George on Seinfeld, a small man living in a BIG world and playing with someone else's money. If you notice, almost all the contracts he signed were at least 1 million too high, it's like he felt bigger and better by acting rich and giving everyone more - it pumped up his ego (just my impression anyhow).

Taking less works... the fans appreciate it and sponsorship contacts will come and that will supplement the difference. Just Imagine.... Lucic gets paid half as much... It something I'd get behind, it's a player I can support and a player who I'd go see when he's sponsoring some dealership or something -but - I've always loved that mean looking yellow mouth guard (why didn't he do orange up in Edmonton?).

Salaries they don't deserve? Players "deserve" what a team will pay them.

They get what is their FMV, or it wouldn't be paid.

There is a salary cap, the same amount of money will largely get distributed regardless of an individual's salary. it'll just go to someone else.

You really think if Lucic had taken $3M (even though he was offered $6M), that sponsorship deals would make up the difference?

Very few players get any type of sponsorship deals.

It's hard to criticize any player for seeking the most he can.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would also add that if the Brodie for Kadri deal had gone through that we probably would have kept Stone for this year.

No, if the Kadri deal had gone through we would still be in a position where we would have to shed salary to sign Tkachuk and Mangiapane. Stone was just a bad signing, the Flames could not even trade him while eating 1.2 million dollars of salary. There was not a team out there willing to take Stone at 2.3 million a year, thus the Flames had to buy him out.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

No, if the Kadri deal had gone through we would still be in a position where we would have to shed salary to sign Tkachuk and Mangiapane. Stone was just a bad signing, the Flames could not even trade him while eating 1.2 million dollars of salary. There was not a team out there willing to take Stone at 2.3 million a year, thus the Flames had to buy him out.

I think the concern with most teams is more about the injury and his recovery. 2.3 million for a player coming from a potential career ending injury is a lot. Especially when they can have him on a PTO/cheap deal.

Though with the UFA crop of defensemen still left, maybe he finds it tough to find a spot. It is good that we are getting a 32nd team.

[tkflames]

I blame GG for this one. It's a stretch but if GGs ineptitude hadn't required us to find a partner for Brodie...who was fine with Gio...we wouldn't be in this mess..

[Bingo]

I'm sure others have mentioned it, but technically the Stone buy out does seem to give the Flames the wiggle room to get the last two players signed and not be forced to make a trade.

Fiddled with numbers today but if you get Tkachuk and Mangiapane done for 9 and change and start the year with 21 players they have the room.

[TheScorpion]

It just seems awfully uncharacteristic of Treliving to not strive for maximum flexibility. A 21-man roster is kind of pushing it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It just seems awfully uncharacteristic of Treliving to not strive for maximum flexibility. A 21-man roster is kind of pushing it.

The Kadri deal makes it clear that wasn't his plan A.

But if he's being forced into taking pennies on the dollar for Brodie this buys him more time. Start the season that way and then make a move with circumstance change in other cities.

[Rando]

Frolik still needs to go. 21 man roster only means one extra body, not the way to run your hockey team. That gives Peters almost zero flexibility on his roster.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rando

Frolik still needs to go. 21 man roster only means one extra body, not the way to run your hockey team. That gives Peters almost zero flexibility on his roster.

You guys know I'm not advocating this as a summer long game plan right?

He'll look for better options down to the end. But if he gets Tkachuk and Mangiapane done and has the option of sending waiver eligible players to Stockton and start the year with 21 players he'll do that rather than firesaling an asset.

[Sylvanfan]

The Flames are in a bit of a squeeze for sure. But every training camp there are injuries and the like for every team. So yeah the 21 roster we want to project today is unlikely to be the roster that starts the season.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Frolik isn't going to return much, especially right now given what other players are going for. He is still going to be a much more effective player for the Flames than simply having him jettisoned for nothing. Frolik isn't a negative on the team - even his contract I would argue is very close to fair value anyway - he has a non-stop motor, disrupts the opposing teams' breakouts, reliable all over the ice and he chips in offensively somehow (I don't know how with his shot and his playmaking ability, but somehow every year he seems to put up points, and you can't argue with that).


Brodie especially shouldn't even be considered for a trade unless a team is willing to pay at least fair value. Heck, if I am Treliving, I would demand an overpayment right now. Is there a better defencemen on this team in breakouts? He is by far the best transitioning defencemen on the team. He makes the Flames play faster when he is on the ice. They are more difficult to defend the breakout against when he is on the ice. Trade him for less than what he is worth? No thanks.


I am happy that both these players look like they might be in the line-up opening night. Sure, Peters' life just got a bit tougher, but these two players are assets that help this team win. Hamonic gets injured every year - who is going to step up and play his minutes then if Brodie is off the team and Andersson is playing top pairing? That's going to be difficult to manage. I would rather not see a Davidson in the line-up, or a Petrovic, etc., especially for long tours of duties. If Andersson gets hurt as well - gasp. Things get ugly really fast.


Stone was a really nice luxury. Prout actually gave this team good minutes out there whenever called upon to do so, and was a really good teammate about it. The only RHD in the organization left is Yelesin - which may be good or bad - we don't know. Trade Brodie and Andersson/Hamonic get hurt, now you need Yelesin to play top 4, or have one of the kids play their off-side? That may hurt.



I would rather make Peters' and Trelivings' jobs more complicated by being so tight against the cap. Sucks... but this will only reinforce how critical it is to draft and develop well and only sign depth players on cheap contracts after the July 1st insanity has died down. Trading away Brodie for less than full value doesn't make sense. It will unquestionably hurt to move him given the depth on that right side, so why make a move to hurt yourself if you aren't going to really improve?



Imagine if the Flames didn't have Lucic's cap hit and Brouwer's buyout on the books. Flames would be looking to take advantage of a team such as ourselves and add a pretty good player for peanuts. I really love Treliving, and I like the direction he is taking the Flames, and I love how the Flames operate under his watch in every facet other than July 1st. That's really hurting this team right now. I also love how he is not hesitant to address his mistakes though.


Hoping there is just enough room to sign Tkachuk and Mangiapane without giving up value in a trade to do so. Curious what this team is going to look and feel like this year.

[Flash Walken]

What if the flames went with a 20 man roster?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What if the flames went with a 20 man roster?

They go from an estimated $200K in cap space with both players signed to $1.1M (roughly).

But that is too thin. They'd need to have Kylington to play up or back if there's an injury.

[Flash Walken]

Sorry, I thought it was obvious I was joking.

[Aarongavey]

Maybe we will play with an 18 man lineup like in 2009?