2019 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Resolute 14]

By WAR, Joe Biagini is the best player in the deal. Sanchez is the worst.

Sanchez: -0.5 WAR
Fisher: +0.2 WAR
Biagini: +0.7 WAR

[SuperMatt18]

To me the issue is at this point everyone who says Sanchez doesn't have value is right, going on 3 seasons where he's struggled/battled injuries.

But that's exactly why they should have held on to him.

I feel like Stevenson+Biagini should have been able to get you Fisher. Stevenson is a Top 25 prospect, putting up good numbers in A+ (similar to Fisher at the same age), and Biagini is still a positive reliever.

So then the question begs...if Sanchez is just a throw in why are you including him in the trade selling low.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So then the question begs...if Sanchez is just a throw in why are you including him in the trade selling low.

Rogers has to Rogers - $3.9 million /yr in payroll vs. replacement level player making $800k

[agulati]

Looking around, I came across Bautista still being a free agent. Has he not announced his retirement yet?

[Roof-Daddy]

For the people saying the Jays should have held on to Sanchez, or tried him as a reliever, how do we know they didn't plan to do that only to have Sanchez say that if they want to move him to the bullpen then to trade him?

Just a thought.

Personally, I'd had enough of watching Sanchez pitch. Maybe he turns it around, and good for him if he does, but I don't see it.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Derek Fisher isn't a major leaguer yet. That's the nature of trading for a prospect...albeit one who looks to have stalled the last two seasons while still putting up solid AAA numbers. Worth a gamble for a rebuilding team, especially when you aren't giving up much to get him. Biagini, Sanchez and Stevenson isn't much to give up, let's face it.

Worth a gamble, but not giving up 3 players, two who are already major leaguers for.

Sanchez has struggled the last few seasons but as others have mentioned has had to deal with finger issues that can affect performance. He hasn't been able to pull it together but has still shown glimpses of his old self. Most recently his last start.

He's not going to get you someone special on his own as of right now but he also shouldn't be just thrown away in a package for someone only a couple years younger who if McKinney is his comparable looks like he'll be lucky to be a replacement player.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Again how is this is selling "low" on Sanchez because he has been this bad for almost 3 seasons now. When should they have traded Sanchez? As a rental next season when his value would have been even lower? Would that not have been selling low? The only value that Sanchez had was in his years of control.

Biagini, yes had some value this season but that doesn't erase the last two seasons where he was a sub replacement level pitcher.

Let's look at some other returns:

Mike Leake/ 2.0 WAR / Free Agent in 2021 Return: Jose Caballero - 22 yo A+ ball hitter, not a top 100 prospect, not on the D backs top 10.

Mark Melancon / 0.5 WAR (Career 10.6) / Free Agent 2021 Return: Tristan Beck, struggling in A ball, not on any top 100 lists or a top 10 prospect for the Giants, and Dan Winkler a sub replacement level pitcher.

Hunter Strickland/ -0.2 WAR / Free Agent 2022 Return: Aaron Fletcher, 23 yo AA pitcher with a high WHIP but decent strikeout numbers, not a top 100 guy, not in the Nationals top 30 prospects in any of the lists i can find.

It just seemed like any sort of decent return for any type of middle of the road reliever or starter just wasn't there in the trade market. I would take Derek Fisher over a lot of those returns as well. It doesn't mean I love Derek Fisher, it just means that teams are not willing to part with premium prospects.

Like I said before the return is a little underwhelming but I won't shed a tear over the players lost because two of them were just not very good and the third, Cal Stevenson, was someone who had some promise but is not someone I will lose sleep over.

[868904]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Again how is this is selling "low" on Sanchez because he has been this bad for almost 3 seasons now. When should they have traded Sanchez? As a rental next season when his value would have been even lower? Would that not have been selling low? The only value that Sanchez had was in his years of control.

Biagini, yes had some value this season but that doesn't erase the last two seasons where he was a sub replacement level pitcher.

Let's look at some other returns:

Mike Leake/ 2.0 WAR / Free Agent in 2021 Return: Jose Caballero - 22 yo A+ ball hitter, not a top 100 prospect, not on the D backs top 10.

Mark Melancon / 0.5 WAR (Career 10.6) / Free Agent 2021 Return: Tristan Beck, struggling in A ball, not on any top 100 lists or a top 10 prospect for the Giants, and Dan Winkler a sub replacement level pitcher.

Hunter Strickland/ -0.2 WAR / Free Agent 2022 Return: Aaron Fletcher, 23 yo AA pitcher with a high WHIP but decent strikeout numbers, not a top 100 guy, not in the Nationals top 30 prospects in any of the lists i can find.

It just seemed like any sort of decent return for any type of middle of the road reliever or starter just wasn't there in the trade market. I would take Derek Fisher over a lot of those returns as well. It doesn't mean I love Derek Fisher, it just means that teams are not willing to part with premium prospects.

Like I said before the return is a little underwhelming but I won't shed a tear over the players lost because two of them were just not very good and the third, Cal Stevenson, was someone who had some promise but is not someone I will lose sleep over.

Well if you buy what other GMs are saying, the Jays screwed the market for sellers by selling so low on Stroman.

[flames_fan_down_under]

What MLB GMs said that? Quotes?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

What MLB GMs said that? Quotes?

https://www.tsn.ca/report-mlb-teams-...oman-1.1344098

[flames_fan_down_under]

I see anonymous sources being quoted by the same guy who said the Blue Jays were considering extending Marcus Stroman. I was looking for a MLB GM quote.

Weird that Andrew Cashner who was worth almost 3 WAR was traded prior to Stroman and got an incredibly light return from the Red Sox, is that a precedent setting move or just another indicator of what teams value?

The Cleveland Indians did very well with their Bauer trade, after the Stroman deal supposedly screwed the market.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I see anonymous sources being quoted by the same guy who said the Blue Jays were considering extending Marcus Stroman. I was looking for a MLB GM quote.

Well first of all even Atkins tried to say after Stroman was traded that they explored extending him so that doesn't mean it was a false report. Though I question if really he did or if he's just trying to blow smoke up people's ass.

And second, no smart GM is going to make a statement like that and allow his name to be released. I remember the same thing happening when Sutter traded Phaneuf.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Well I simply took some issue with someone stating that MLB GMs have come out and said that Stroman had screwed the market. All I see are anonymous sources, if you want to assume those words are coming from the mouths of one of the 30 MLB GMs then fill your boots.

My main point of contention is that people are saying that this Stroman return had created turmoil in the market for starting pitchers. I noted the very light return for Cashner prior to Stroman, a strong return for Bauer after the Stroman trade. I think it's clear that MLB teams value strikeout ability from pitchers, and velocity, like Bauer, and therefor he garnered a greater return. You can think the return for Stroman was light, that's fine, I just don't buy the 'Atkins sewered the pitching market that's why not as many big names were traded'.

As I stated before I think teams are extremely reluctant to give up premium prospect capital anymore in trades. Greinke got a big haul, didn't get either of the Astro's top two prospects, but did well, however the D Backs threw in a TON of cash to sweeten the pot. That should tell you how difficult it is to get teams number one prospect. The Jays got two good prospects that have slotted into the 5th and 7th spot on the Jays top 10 prospect board according to MLB Pipeline, and the Jays have a fairly deep farm system.

I can also quote people saying they think the return is strong:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1155612265359564800

[flames_fan_down_under]

Bo Bichette DHing today lol. Gotta keep Galvis's bat in the lineup I guess. Montoyo certainly makes some curious moves.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Bo Bichette DHing today lol. Gotta keep Galvis's bat in the lineup I guess. Montoyo certainly makes some curious moves.

Think it's more about keeping Bichette's bat in the lineup, as they likely had it planned as a day off for him.

Kid is young and had a busy week getting called up and then playing his first 3 games.

No need to overwork these young guys. Give them rest and rotate them through the lineup as needed.

He's made some weird moves this season but don't think this is one of them.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Vlad Jr with another dinger!!! He's alright.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Bo with an RBI single. Really cool to see these kids produce at the MLB level.

[Roof-Daddy]

So glad Vladdy seems to be turning a corner. He was starting to worry me a bit.

[Roof-Daddy]

Grichik with a dinger.

Jays have got some pop in those bats.

Lead the league in homers since june 16th.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Some pretty encouraging data on Simeon Woods Richardson:

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...-trade-deadlne

After appearing in seven games across two rookie levels in his debut season, Woods Richardson has spent the full duration of the 2019 season pitching for the Mets Low-A affiliate, starting in 20 games accumulating to 78 1⁄3 innings.

To say he’s been fantastic would be an understatement, as supported from his ranks among 55 qualified South Atlantic League starters. All of this while being the youngest pitcher of that group.

FIP: 4th
xFIP: 1st
K%: 7th
BB%: 13th
K-BB%: 1st
SwStr%: 14th
HR/9: 18th
GB%: 10th
IFFB%: 1st

Pitching as an 18-year-old at the Low-A level is impressive in its own way. Putting up league-leading results is at a whole other level. To put Woods Richardson’s performance into a historical perspective, there have been 27 pitchers age 18 or younger to pitch at the Low-A level since 2006 (minimum 70 innings). Woods Richardson is one of them. His ranks out of those 27 pitchers go as...

FIP: 4th
xFIP: 1st
K%: 3rd
BB%: 6th
K-BB%: 2nd
HR/9: 15th
The only pitcher that can really hold a comparison to Woods Richardson’s 2019 season from an age and performance standpoint is 2008 Madison Bumgarner (2.06 FIP in 141 2⁄3 innings).