[News] Tentative Agreement Reached! New Arena!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Mayo

With 0 tax dollars the pain will come in the form of personal seat licenses

Either way - I'm in favour of tax dollars going to this for reasons stated above

So you're in favour of tax dollars for the reason that otherwise the actual direct user would have to pay the cost?

I mean you understand that's kind of the point that people are aiming for right? Some random citizen shouldn't subsidize me going to the game and thus increase the profit of a private enterprise.

[Senator Clay Davis]

PSLs are an upfront pain, but as long as they are transferable they could also end up being a nice money maker. But PSLs are truly the fairest way to do it since those who derive the most benefit from the new building (besides the owners) are the season ticket holders. Seems fair they burden most of the cost up front.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Muta

Farkas is such a grandstander, it's insufferable.

For all the toolbars Calgarians have elected like Anders, Bronco, Chu, Rempel, Redford, Stelmach and Crockett, Farkas is the complete tool shed. Complete with republican look and all.

Good job you idiots in ward 11!

[Fire]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's actually worse.

https://www.coppernblue.com/2015/7/2...s-rexall-place

There's no reason for us to expect much different, but maybe the Flames don't run as wild since the economy here still hasn't recovered. It's doubtful though.

They will charge what they think the market will bear, which will most likely be a decent size premium over current prices because people will want to be experience everything the new arena has to offer. If they charge too much then they will find out pretty quickly when a lot of season ticket holders refuse to renew.

[tkflames]

Do we know roughly what time the vote will happen

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't know why it's so hard for some people here to come to grip with other peoples opinions. Disagree all you want... but having the opinion that it's ####ty to give a quarter billion dollars so a wealthy individual can make more money by building a new hockey rink is a legitimate , good faith opinion. You can make a case that community need and solidarity provide a good enough benefit... but to pretend the people who are opposed are all knuckle dragging idiots is the height of arrogance. 47% of Calgarians are idiots? #### off.

I know this is not your point of view but I’ll use your post as an example of what happens when a person would say “it's ####ty to give a quarter billion dollars so a wealthy individual can make more money by building a new hockey rink” which is what you see on social media and the newspaper comments sections AlpineOracle are referencing.

It immediately comes across as if they only read the headline, don’t know and don’t care to know the actual details of the deal. They’re too lazy to have an educated view on the matter and are ecstatic that the opportunity to kick up dust is before them. You can just hear these caveman voices at the Sunday backyard barbecues around town.

Even the minimal amount of effort shows that the deal is not a cheque to CSEC for $275 million and in 2024 the beginning an ongoing bill to clean, secure, heat, staff, and maintain the event centre.

Even being unconvinced of any enhanced economic benefits to the region it’s hard to ignore that the $275 million is knocked down to $117.5 million by just the share of naming rights and the facility fee (estimated value).

Most Calgarians aren’t idiots but man some sure don’t try hard not to be.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

For all the toolbars Calgarians have elected like Anders, Bronco, Chu, Rempel, Redford, Stelmach and Crockett, Farkas is the complete tool shed. Complete with republican look and all.

Good job you idiots in ward 11!

The only toolbar we elected was Naheed Nenshi.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The only toolbar we elected was Naheed Nenshi.

Yeah, I suppose that are other adjectives for Sean Chu and Jeromy Farkas.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

PSLs are an upfront pain, but as long as they are transferable they could also end up being a nice money maker. But PSLs are truly the fairest way to do it since those who derive the most benefit from the new building (besides the owners) are the season ticket holders. Seems fair they burden most of the cost up front.

Have any other NHL arenas used a PSL?

[oldschoolcalgary]

But a Calgary economist disputes that figure, saying inflation wasn't taken into account.

"That number is unquestionably wrong," University of Calgary associate economics professor Trevor Tombe told The Canadian Press.

"A dollar in 35 years is worth a lot less than a dollar today. Inflation alone eats away half the value of that dollar over the course of three and a half decades.

"They're not at all incorporating these issues around the time value of money. It is just Finance 101. This is not how you do it."

He also points out a $47-million net loss on the project wasn't made public at the news conference last Monday, and that information only came to light when administration was pressed by councillors later that night in chambers.

But a loss of $47 million over 35 years isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, he said.

"It's a money loser, but that's OK," Tombe said. "We don't fund the zoo because we think it will make money. We do it for other reasons and there are those non-economic considerations here too."

The city vows municipal property taxes will not increase to pay for the event centre.

If revenue streams to the city stated in the proposal were eliminated, Tombe says the arena's cost to the average Calgary homeowner would be $15 per year in perpetuity.

"Personally, I actually come down and say 'hey, the intangible benefits, redeveloping that area and the arena for Stampede and other community stuff and civic pride' to me, that's worth fifteen bucks a year, but individuals will differ," he said.

https://www.tsn.ca/calgary-flames-ar...ncil-1.1343662

take it for what its worth...

[Mr.Coffee]

If that is true on the math every single person on this website is probably on board with keeping the Flames around for $15/yr

[standinmotion]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

https://www.tsn.ca/calgary-flames-ar...ncil-1.1343662

take it for what its worth...

Does this $15/year take into consideration inflation too?

[PepsiFree]

“For just 4 cents a day, you can feed a starving Ken King. That’s less than a cup of coffee each month.”

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If that is true on the math every single person on this website is probably on board with keeping the Flames around for $15/yr

I'll also pay $7.50 to get the Stamps a new stadium.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The only toolbar we elected was Naheed Nenshi.

You've got some kinda problems if you think Nenshi is worse than that list.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

For all the toolbars Calgarians have elected like Anders, Bronco, Chu, Rempel, Redford, Stelmach and Crockett, Farkas is the complete tool shed. Complete with republican look and all.

Good job you idiots in ward 11!

I voted against him
It was all the rich people along 14th that didn't want a BRT route in their backyard.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You've got some kinda problems if you think Nenshi is worse than that list.

Yup. I have all kind of problems.

What else do you got?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Have any other NHL arenas used a PSL?

I know Columbus were the first to do it, not sure if they're still the only.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

So some people think that consultation shouldn’t happen or should be brief because people are mostly idiots. Those “idiots” will be paying for this and deserve to have a say even if you agree with them. Consultation needs to happen and is now more formally legislated in the MGA.

'We need to have representatives to decide because people are idiots.'


'Who elected the representatives?'


'A bunch of idiots.'

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by standinmotion

Does this $15/year take into consideration inflation too?

As I bantered back and forth with Tombe on Twitter - it's $15 if you attribute the full City cost ONLY to the residential taxpayer. But as Tombe himself argued, all money whether capital or operating is fungible. So taking the same principle - that cost should be thought of also as being allocated across all revenue stream types - including residential, non residential, sale of goods, etc.

Residential property taxes are about 25% of the City's revenue, therefore the "homeowner" share of the cost is 25% too. So that's about $3.75 per household per year.

Further, and as he acknowledged after I pushed back - by year 35 there are more households sharing that burden as well. You could expect 40-50% more houses being part of the assessment base, so that per household cost also decreases over time.

So, in reality, on average it might be closer to $3.00 to $3.25 per household cost per year, or say less than 1 cent per household per day. About half a cent per citizen per day.