Simplified Neal/Lucic trade Poll

[TheScorpion]

Just saying Lucic "can't play" is the kind of factless statement that the media is using to justify criticizing the Flames in this deal. Truth is, Lucic is better than Neal in almost every quantifiable way. Heck, he's better than a lot of his other peers, too. Check out Bingo's post there, or any of Lucic's heatmaps on any advanced stats website (Micah Blake McCurdy has good ones on HockeyViz.) Lucic drives play and he does it somewhat well.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Just saying Lucic "can't play" is the kind of factless statement that the media is using to justify criticizing the Flames in this deal. Truth is, Lucic is better than Neal in almost every quantifiable way. Heck, he's better than a lot of his other peers, too. Check out Bingo's post there, or any of Lucic's heatmaps on any advanced stats website (Micah Blake McCurdy has good ones on HockeyViz.) Lucic drives play and he does it somewhat well.

Lucic's contract was considered one of the worst in the league before he got traded to Calgary. Not only by everyone on this site but around the league.



I don't know what kind of spin people are trying to pull around here but there should be some kind of intellectual honesty about who this guy is and why he was thought to be pretty much unmovable just a few days ago.



And yes Neal sucked hard last year but Lucic is no better.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Lucic's contract was considered one of the worst in the league before he got traded to Calgary. Not only by everyone on this site but around the league.

I don't know what kind of spin people are trying to pull around here but there should be some kind of intellectual honesty about who this guy is and why he was thought to be pretty much unmovable just a few days ago.

And yes Neal sucked hard last year but Lucic is no better.

Saqe, if you don't like someones opinion on Calgarypuck, just wait a month, it'll change...

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think Neal to the Oilers would be hilarious but it'd probably mean Calgary gets Russell or Sekera or Manning or (gasp) Lucic. Compared to Nashville, I would have less-than-zero interest in any Oiler.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=727
06-07-2019, 09:20 AM

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Sage, if you don't like someones opinion on Calgarypuck, just wait a month, it'll change...



https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...&postcount=727
06-07-2019, 09:20 AM

Oh, look who decided to poke his head up for air just long enough to drive by and take a swipe at CalgaryPuck.


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[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Oh, look who decided to poke his head up for air just long enough to drive by and take a swipe at CalgaryPuck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peoples opinions on Lucic have changed in a month, are you saying I am wrong? Has yours changed (I ask knowing full well the answer)?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Peoples opinions on Lucic have changed in a month, are you saying I am wrong? Has yours?

I am saying that your primary purpose here seems to be to complain about the Board, it’s posters, the moderators and the owner.

It is tiresome and unwelcome.


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[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am saying that your primary purpose here seems to be to complain about the Board, it’s posters, the moderators and the owner.

It is tiresome and unwelcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As if to prove my point.

Your opinion last month was that my primary purpose here to bad mouth James Neal. Now I have a new primary purpose. See your opinion on that changed in a month too...

[freakinsaprikin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Reaves

1.27 P/60

CF% 46.6%

CF 48.6/60

CA 55.6/60



Simmonds

1.04 P/60

CF% 47.0%

CF 50.5/60

CA 57.0/60



Lucic

0.97 P/60

CF% 50.7%

CF 54.6/60

CA 53.1/60



Best underlying numbers Lucic, most productive Reaves.

CA 55.6/60

Thanks Bingo, this helps.

I don’t think anybody is arguing that Lucic has a good contract.

What I’m trying to figure out is if Lucic has the potential to help us win next year and how much over market we are paying for that help? If we weren’t using this money for Lucic/Neal what would we be spending it on?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Lucic's contract was considered one of the worst in the league before he got traded to Calgary. Not only by everyone on this site but around the league.

I don't know what kind of spin people are trying to pull around here but there should be some kind of intellectual honesty about who this guy is and why he was thought to be pretty much unmovable just a few days ago.

And yes Neal sucked hard last year but Lucic is no better.

Think you answered your own question with your last sentence.

It's toxic contract for toxic contract. It's not spin. We had endless Neal isn't very good topics on this site for the last six months. He's now gone. Calgary has another team's problem (guy paid too much to do too little), and they're hoping he's a better fit than Neal was.

[This post is terrible]

Originally Posted by AC

Hmm?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Peoples opinions on Lucic have changed in a month, are you saying I am wrong? Has yours changed (I ask knowing full well the answer)?

If you asked anyone if they wanted Lucic straight up the answer would be no.

For Neal who was struggling in Calgary? It's a different discussion. The move makes you look into things and yeah a deeper dive on Lucic's numbers can change opinions.

Why wouldn't it?

I wouldn't be doing deep dives on useless Oilers players before they became Flames. I was certainly looking for silver linings for Neal all last year and was coming up empty.

Your need to gotcha people is getting pretty sad.

[TheScorpion]

I find it amusing that CanadaMatt suggests that it is weak for people to change their opinions, considering that he seldom presents any opinions of his own and seemingly prefers to tear down those of others.

I was made aware of information about the play of Neal and Lucic that I had previously not seen, and I changed my opinion because of it. Simple as that. You got me!

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

As if to prove my point.

Your opinion last month was that my primary purpose here to bad mouth James Neal. Now I have a new primary purpose. See your opinion on that changed in a month too...

Opinions change. That shouldn’t be a hard concept to grasp.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by freakinsaprikin

Thanks Bingo, this helps.

I don’t think anybody is arguing that Lucic has a good contract.

What I’m trying to figure out is if Lucic has the potential to help us win next year and how much over market we are paying for that help? If we weren’t using this money for Lucic/Neal what would we be spending it on?

All those numbers are for last year.

Simmons and Lucic would be helped by a three year sample size, Reaves wouldn't.

Probably best to assume last season and not a bounce back. The good news is the underlying numbers for Lucic were solid all three years in Edmonton.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Lucic's contract was considered one of the worst in the league before he got traded to Calgary. Not only by everyone on this site but around the league.



I don't know what kind of spin people are trying to pull around here but there should be some kind of intellectual honesty about who this guy is and why he was thought to be pretty much unmovable just a few days ago.



And yes Neal sucked hard last year but Lucic is no better.

It was a worse contract at 6M/year than it is at 5.25M/year. Still bad, but better than the Oilers are getting for 6.5M/year with Neal. And probably Lucic+500K/year cap space>Neal+bad attitude (based on his public criticism of teammates and coaches)+player that slots nowhere in the lineup.

[djsFlames]

Yeah. 5.25 for Lucic is better than 6.5 for present day Neal.

Funny enough I see that becoming the new worst contract in the league a month into the season when Neal proves to have about equal on ice value (just trading physicality and good possession for a few goals) but at a worse cap hit.

Again the only silver lining there that they can brag about later is a buyout.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Peoples opinions on Lucic have changed in a month, are you saying I am wrong? Has yours changed (I ask knowing full well the answer)?

Dude you realize that he was a member of a team most people on this board hate. People on this site take digs at McDavid because of the jersey he wears.

The fact people are a little more optimistic and spewing less hate towards Lucic the summer before he plays a game in a Flames Jersey isn’t the least it surprising.

You talk like you uncovered some mystery that only Flames fans will flip flop on a player when he joins their team. Were you around when the Flames signed the once despised Bertuzzi?

The point you are trying to make is common sense. I loved ripping on Lucic and his bad deal in Edmonton but it is not like we gave up a great player to get him so why not look on the bright side?

[BigBrodieFan]

Sorry if a lot of this is repeat stuff, I haven't read the thread.

My two cents on the trade-

Neal was obviously underperforming, but I commended him for his previous play (as a non-Flame), and his charity work in Calgary. He actually got on the ice with kiddos several times as he partnered with 'Power Play.' Not only that, but he's just such a nice guy, I so wanted him to do well. (Obviously charity doesn't win hockey games, I get it)

I know it's my 'mom' nature, but I am sad to see him go.

With that being said, Lucic is actually a very impressive player, having overcome a lot of issues to be a successful NHLer, including a disease in his spine, which he never complains about. The kid has had a lot of heart (not last year of course).

Lucic is also a charitable guy. In Boston he participated in the celebrity/athlete softball tournament (can't remember the name of it)(every year I think, or several times anyway). He also did the 'Hockey Helps Kids' thing in Edmonton. Hopefully he'll start something in Calgary.

I remember reading something or maybe watching something where he said he preferred playing in the US to Canada and hated the cold in Edmonton, but who wouldn't hate being there? I loved that he owned up to not getting it done in Edmonton.

My hope- he can add some toughness, and he's used properly- as a role player
My fear- he's slow, and most of the Flames are not, and his slowness provided plenty of opportunities for goals against Oilers.


We can complain about Treviling trading one trainwreck for another disaster, but I think supporting the move and hoping for the best is more productive. Maybe BT gets fired for making a colossal dumb trade, and maybe Lucic hoists another cup over his head in a red flaming jersey, we shall see.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep ... would be great if he was able to skate at Hathaway speed and be on the ice with the smurfs that the Flames need protecting.... like he was 3-4 years ago.

Are we talking about the same ricardodw who replies to himself to make sure he is getting enough attention??

If one has ever studied Psychology, children who seek attention will do bad things for attention. Shame on those parents or parties who reward and enable the said childish behavior.

Giving attention to baseless comments does no good. I see his comments but find them completely meaningless.

[GreenLantern2814]

Is the summer over yet?