Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

If so it’ll be three veteran players in three years (Brouwer being the other) that mysteriously develop “locker room problems” after they leave the club, and who were being touted for their “leadership strengths” during their tenure at the club.

Clearly none of us are in the room and can’t know for sure, but my spider-sense calls BS on these reports. For me it’s just a convenient distraction that all teams employ to help “sell” a transaction to the fan base.

Those who see the translation as positive will put weight to these reports, and those who see the transaction as negative will ignore them.

Maybe it’s the core that’s the problem. Again.

[Brick]

[QUOTE=topfiverecords;7166435]I think that’s incredibly unlikely that he would be that unprofessional. Then sit him up in the press box for a while and put Ryan Lomberg in his spot.



No.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by zamler

Remember when Gio took out (according to Oil fans) McDavid and what Lucic did about it?

Didn't Lucic miss that game?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

I always love how the guy that had a ####ty year is now working out with Gary Roberts, like that is going to improve his skating and skill.

Don't you know Roberts is that wizardry wizard? All he need to do is point his magic wand and say ABRACADABRA !!! The player will magically turns into a 50 goals sniper.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Maybe it’s the core that’s the problem. Again.

Perhaps, I wouldn’t have thought so, but what do I know?

If I were a GM and just made a contentious transaction, I’d try to pettyfog with the un-provable too.

That may not be the case here, but that’s my hunch.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Didn't Lucic miss that game?

It appears he was a healthy scratch.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Didn't Lucic miss that game?

Could be I don't know. Tried to find an example where Lucic imposed his will and kept the opposition in line was that his thing in Edmonton? The games I saw where I knew he played I barely noticed him.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It appears he was a healthy scratch.

Well, they called it a lower body injury. Either way, he wasn't in the game to exact revenge on Giordano. And Neal missed the last game of the year as well, as a confirmed healthy scratch, in the playoffs, where he was supposed to shine.

I don't know if being positive is annoying to people, but that's the side I'm choosing on this topic. I just don't see how this is horrible. It's lateral with potential upside for both teams and both players. Distancing myself from my Oilers hatred, this is a good hockey trade.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by zamler

Could be I don't know. Tried to find an example where Lucic imposed his will and kept the opposition in line was that his thing in Edmonton? The games I saw where I knew he played I barely noticed him.

So, pretty much Neal. Made zero impact all year long. I can't remember one time I said F-yeah, but there were many F-yous.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Niemo

If Lucic retires in 2 years, do the Oilers pay the recapture penalty?

There would not be any recapture penalty. Those only apply to the super-long contracts that were signed before the last lockout.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It’s really unfortunate because I give it 15 games and most people are going to be wanting him to miss time.

I think people should put the advanced stats away and go watch past Oiler games. I watched nearly all of the Oilers games the past few years and he hasn’t looked like a good serviceable player amongst that collection of AHLers.

But let’s get excited because most of the time he’ll cheap shot someone in a scrum after the play, stalk players away from the puck, throw inconsequential hits, and be a borderline goon on the verge of getting suspended.

The guy was acquired as a bottom six forward that is tough and intimidating. The fact that he has good underlying numbers is an intriguing bonus, and certainly not something to be ignored, as they are fact.

Do you want this transaction to fail?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Oh, don't get me wrong, Valimaki, Andersson etc look great to me, and I don't have any idea about Button's role in getting those specific guys into the organization. Maybe he was crucial. Maybe what held back Tod Button's genius for years was the "win now, who needs picks?" attitude of basically the entire management staff and ownership group, going back 20 years now. But for every Valimaki, there's 10 Rico Fatas. There's Kyle Greentrees EDIT just looked and don't see him, so maybe Greg Nemisz is a better example), and ... these are the guys we REMEMBER. There's also a hugely long list of guys we'd never remember - Garret Bembridge anyone? And I get that drafting isn't ever going to be even 50%, I really do. But the flames swung and missed and missed and missed and missed for so many years, don'tcha think? When your big draft "hit" in a 5 year span is David Moss.... there's an issue.

Look at any NHL team and find me a franchise that has more hits than misses in the draft. The major majority of drafted players, outside the top 15 picks or so, do not have a full NHL career and many many top 10 picks bust.

Look at the Red Wings who were pretty much the gold standard of drafting in the early 2000’s. In 2001 none of their picks have made the NHL. In 2002 only 3/10 players drafted have had a real NHL career. In 2003: 2/8. In 2004: 1/8.

We have Rico Fata, Greg Nemisz, Mitch Wahl, etc. but every team has examples of those. Gilbert Brule (#6), Peter Mueller (#8), Nikita Filatov (#6), Cam Barker (#3), Alex Burmistrov (#8), Griffin Reinhart (#4), and the list goes on and on.

The NHL draft is mostly a crapshoot.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I think that’s incredibly unlikely that he would be that unprofessional. Then sit him up in the press box for a while and put Ryan Lomberg in his spot.







Milan Lucic

Unlikely? He already pretty much did that all of last season. His effort was absolutely pitiful. You still think you could acquire Milan Lucic without adding additional assets if Neal was playing bottom six minutes, no offensive output and sulking in the dressing room 1/4 the way into a season? I don’t.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames haven't drafted in the 2nd round in 3 straight years.

Dube Andersson kylington are all 2nd round picks.

The flames drafting 'turning around' has a lot more to do with having picks to use than it does any revolution on the scouting staff. Todd Button has been the man in Calgary for what, 20 years?

If you give the man picks, he will get you players.

When you give him 3 picks total in the first 3 rounds of the draft over 3 years, he's going to struggle to get you players.

Exactly, a team like the Flames should not be trading picks unless they truly believe they are knocking on the door. They traded a first, three seconds and two thirds (and a few other assets) for Hamonic, Stone, Smith and Lazar. Hamonic is the only one who has made a major contribution to the team. I hope they are developing more confidence in their amateur drafting, no need to fill gaps with picks for the next couple years given the depth the team has.

The Flames will never be a destination for UFA’s either, easily in the bottom third of the league in terms of a destination for a valued ufa. Which leaves them scraping the bottom of the barrel most of the time on July 1st.

[dino7c]

Team is so terrible at everything they finished second overall

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Exactly, a team like the Flames should not be trading picks unless they truly believe they are knocking on the door. They traded a first, three seconds and two thirds (and a few other assets) for Hamonic, Stone, Smith and Lazar. Hamonic is the only one who has made a major contribution to the team. I hope they are developing more confidence in their amateur drafting, no need to fill gaps with picks for the next couple years given the depth the team has.

The Flames will never be a destination for UFA’s either, easily in the bottom third of the league in terms of a destination for a valued ufa. Which leaves them scraping the bottom of the barrel most of the time on July 1st.

Right. That’s why we have to overpay to attract UFA. Listen, I am a fan of BT, so take with a grain of salt, but he has done a good job overall... I did think that Brouwer and Neal were both good signings at the time.
Both were fails, but when you have to overpay to attract UFA, sometimes it happens.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Team is so terrible at everything they finished second overall

Come on Dino a second overall finish that led to nothing. That's the part most fans are frustrated with.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Unlikely? He already pretty much did that all of last season. His effort was absolutely pitiful.

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

You still think you could acquire Milan Lucic without adding additional assets if Neal was playing bottom six minutes, no offensive output and sulking in the dressing room 1/4 the way into a season? I don’t.

Yes I do.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Don't forget who the coach is in Greaserville. Dave - defence first - Tippett. I would think his demand for knowing where your defensive zone is will be significantly more than Peters. I am not sure The Real Deal will be up to it. This will be interesting.

James Neal broke into the NHL under Dave Tippet in Dallas in 08-09, where he scored 24 goals. So there is a relationship already. It’s where he earned his moniker “Real Deal”.

He’ll likely score 20+. A fire hydrant playing with McDavid would do likewise. And it totally doesn’t matter, because regardless of if he was a locker room cancer or not, the relationship between Neal and Peters was “over”. You were never going to see him in the top 6, and you were never getting anything else out of him in a red jersey. That’s fine. I’ll take the high third rounder should it turn into a runaway.

To be able to trade him with less salary coming back is a win. Period. Addition by subtraction, and you can’t really argue otherwise, unless you were willing to fire Peters, and see if he could succeed under a new coach.

Lucic sucks. But at least he’s not a player who’s at loggerheads with the coach. I have no other expectation than that for him in terms of success. Even if he winds up in the press box most nights... you’re paying less money for it.

I’ll take it.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Come on Dino a second overall finish that led to nothing. That's the part most fans are frustrated with.

This. Not to mention, other teams are strengthening.

So far this off season, the flames have added Talbot (who we all laughed at last year) Lucic (who we all laughed at last year) and a bunch of AHLers

...while losing Hathaway and likely one of Frolik/Brodie just to keep our RFA’s.

There’s still time, but the best opportunities to strengthen have likely passed. While I don’t think anyone’s standing on centre street bridge ready to jump off, it’s reasonable (IMHO) to be concerned.

Fingers crossed for some salary cap relief at Arbitration and Chucky negotiations. Getting good contracts with these players is critical to flames success in 19/20