Brad "Frickin" Treliving

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Why do I hate the trade? Because I’m quite positive that Neal didn’t drop off a cliff, while Lucic has been an anchor for years and declining still.

I'm by no means a fan of this trade, but to be fair to Lucic, he's been playing on the worst franchise in pro sports for the last 3 years. I don't care who you are, that's gotta have a negative effect on a player. I agree that he's declining overall, but I think the Edmonton stank definitely played a big part in that.

Hopefully a change of scenery and being able to play for a quality playoff-bound team will push him to contribute in a successful way. The deal is done and he's a Flame now, so there's no sense in losing our minds over it any longer. Let's just hope the guy can play the role he was meant to play. Just be a pain in the arse to play against, that's all I ask. And if he can pot 10-15 goals, that would be great as well. No doubt he's gonna be motivated after spending the last 3 seasons in Mulletville.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think he’s being pretty clear on the distinction
I would argue continuity of management is more critical than continuity of ineffective players

Even if its bad management continuity?...and correct me if i am wrong, but Lucic is now no longer part of the ineffective players group?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think that you simply want to argue for argument's sake

That's what I figured.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Even if its bad management continuity?...and correct me if i am wrong, but Lucic is now no longer part of the ineffective players group?

I don’t think it’s been bad management overall
Not by a long shot
Remains to be seen how Lucic does in the role they are defining for him

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t think it’s been bad management overall
Not by a long shot
Remains to be seen how Lucic does in the role they are defining for him

Overall I agree actually, but in the last 2 years? Things have taken a decidedly different turn IMO.

The Neal deal was a bad bad decision...making it worse was an even worse one.

Which is why I now believe, and its a fair point i think, that he is on a much much shorter leash than he was a few days ago. Again...starting to get the Sutter feel to it. Panic/desperate moves that eventually sunk him.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

That’s exactly what will happen, he even said he was tired. I don’t want to see any level of success for that organization, but he will score at least 20 this year, and the oilers will make sure to rub that in our face. Just like chiasson. McJesus just makes all players look better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Oilers having Flames 4th liners on their top line is nothing to brag about.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yeah but in the last two years he also pulled off arguably his best trade and also made some good signings like Derek Ryan
And I think given lack of picks he’s had good drafts
So I think your opinion is fair but I don’t agree that he’s on a shorter leash

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Continuity doesn't mean tenure, or not wanting change, it means giving the approach a chance to bear fruit.

If you think his vision is solid though, then he should be your man. For that reason.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If you think his vision is solid though, then he should be your man. For that reason.

Yes, exactly.

??

[4X4]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Overall I agree actually, but in the last 2 years? Things have taken a decidedly different turn IMO.

The Neal deal was a bad bad decision...making it worse was an even worse one.

Which is why I now believe, and its a fair point i think, that he is on a much much shorter leash than he was a few days ago. Again...starting to get the Sutter feel to it. Panic/desperate moves that eventually sunk him.

I think you're freaking out (somewhat understandably) because of the simple fact that Lucic is a Flame. But railing against Treliving's GMing is crazy, IMO. Yes, he's made mistakes, but at least he does what he can to correct them. Two years of Gulutzan? He got the hook. Two years of Brouwer? Bought out. Now he's looking at Neal, someone who apparently asked to go from the #1 team in the west (thanks, Tre) to the f-ing Oilers. Why? Because he was so useless, the new coach made it clear that he wasn't earning ice time. So he pouted, and wanted to go play with his buddy Smith.

I'm pretty thumbs up here with Treliving. Everyone makes mistakes. Treliving identifies his and corrects them. First in the west. Seriously, first in the west, and people are putting Treliving on the hot seat? lol. Treliving's easily got a couple more years, and if the Flames are wise, they'll extend him again.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Ya lateral until we hit the expansion draft and have to protect the big dumb ass.

OMG the Flames are gonna lose.....1 player

Just like before

Lucic will probably waive for it anyway

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

The World: that Lucic contract is untradeable, worst in the league.

Treliving: Hold my beer

I havent waded through all of it because theres a lot, theres a lot of panic and disappointment and I can understand that.

I also think Treliving needs one of those apps on his phone that prevent drunken dialing, but thats neither here nor there.

And nobody said that Lucic was untradeable, just that it would require a considerable sweetener.

That sweetener in this instance was the removal of Neal, which has value, the retention of salary, which has value, the pick, which has value and ostensibly the addition of Lucic...the value of which is questionable.

One of Treliving's off-season goals to shore up this team was to bolster the 4th line and add some character, grit and toughness.

He has presumably addressed that with Lucic, whether that pans out or not remains to be seen.

So value traded hands. Lucic vs Neal in the lineup on the ice? Toss up at best. But overall we're no worse off right now than we were with Neal.

I've been trying to see the silver lining because frankly, Treliving has built this into a team thats arguably as good as its ever been and there has to be a lot of credit for that in addition to providing real managerial stability which are both major benefits and assets to the team.

Neal was useless outside of the top 6 and not even remotely good enough to be in the Top 6. Will Lucic be different? Maybe. Maybe not. But hes unlikely to be worse.

The real kicker is the NMC, but thats a couple years down the road to worry about.

So the trade isnt as catastrophic as it appears at first glance and no need to call for Treliving's head.

Until the expansion draft its dufus for dufus with some wildcard elements to it. We're no worse off than we were with Neal and we're not all that much better off unless some of the intangibles become tangible or we experience a Lucic who benefits from a post-Oilers boost, which isnt inconceivable. Almost every player that leaves Edmonton becomes immediately better off.

Comparing Lucic against Neal's performance in the upcoming season is going to be irrelevant as well. Neal is going to steal Chiasson's place on McDavid's wing so one's stats will improve while the other's declines whereas Lucic will be on our 4th line where Neal would have been just as useful as he was last season....which was 'not at all.'

Either way, the sky has not fallen.

Just dont rush out and buy a Lucic jersey or anything insane like that.

[Resolute 14]

As far as adding character goes, this is one thing Treliving needs to just drop from his vocabulary entirely. Because hunting for that is what has led to his dumbest moves as GM. Troy Brouwer was a character signing. So was James Neal. Now we're going to sit here and try to pass Milan Lucic off as a character guy in a desperate bid to justify his acquisition. Personally, I'm skeptical Lucic will bring much more "character" than Neal or Brouwer did.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I think you're freaking out (somewhat understandably) because of the simple fact that Lucic is a Flame. But railing against Treliving's GMing is crazy, IMO. Yes, he's made mistakes, but at least he does what he can to correct them. Two years of Gulutzan? He got the hook. Two years of Brouwer? Bought out. Now he's looking at Neal, someone who apparently asked to go from the #1 team in the west (thanks, Tre) to the f-ing Oilers. Why? Because he was so useless, the new coach made it clear that he wasn't earning ice time. So he pouted, and wanted to go play with his buddy Smith.

I'm pretty thumbs up here with Treliving. Everyone makes mistakes. Treliving identifies his and corrects them. First in the west. Seriously, first in the west, and people are putting Treliving on the hot seat? lol. Treliving's easily got a couple more years, and if the Flames are wise, they'll extend him again.

Right...no one shall question the great BT.

Got it.

And the reason i dont like the Lucic deal is because

a) he sucks...and sucks badly...and has sucked badly for 2 1/2 seasons now.

b) There was an out on the Neal deal that does not exist on the Lucic deal. (Albeit one that no one wants to use if necessary, but at least it was there)

I want this team to get meaner and tougher...this does not do that however because the player cant play...sort of a key part of things. 7 goals in 122 hockey games on a team with McDavid and Draisaitl on it. Neal scored that many in 63 last year.

I believe keeping Neal one more year to see if there was a bounce back is WAY more favorable than acquiring a guy that is terrible at the game.

But its pretty clear the vast majority want to spin it into a positive somehow and that Treliving should be immune from criticism for it even though he is the very guy that created it....i dont.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As far as adding character goes, this is one thing Treliving needs to just drop from his vocabulary entirely. Because hunting for that is what has led to his dumbest moves as GM. Troy Brouwer was a character signing. So was James Neal. Now we're going to sit here and try to pass Milan Lucic off as a character guy in a desperate bid to justify his acquisition. Personally, I'm skeptical Lucic will bring much more "character" than Neal or Brouwer did.

James Neal was not signed for his character he was signed to score goals. Last summer the Flames has a need for a top 6 winger. They moved one top 6 winger in Ferland for another in Lindholm but they needed more coming off a season where they were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.

I liked the Neal deal at the time and thought he filled a big need. The team is full of 20 somethings so any time a veteran comes in that has had experiences the young stars on our team haven’t experience and character get thrown around a lot.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, exactly.

??

Continuity with Treliving, Coates - good
Continuity with Sutter, Feaster, Button, Riseborough - bad?

Sounds like it’s not really continuity that’s important, but getting the right person in the job.

[Itse]

I've never been a huge fan (or a hater) of Treliving, and I've many times said he's gotten way too much premature praise (and hatred) on this board. All that said, building a team that finishes 2nd in the league should give him way more leash than this questionable trade will shorten it.

...that said, he still hasn't addressed the fact that we currently do not have the cap space to sign all of Tkachuk, Rittich, Bennett and Mangiapane. The clock is ticking as other teams are spending their cap space and he just traded away our big buyout candidate.

Tkachuk is going to be what, 6.5-7.5? Bennett 2.5, Rittich 2.5, Mangiapane 750 or so.

That's something like 12.5-13.5M, plus about 1-1.5M of breathing space... We currently have about 10M in cap space, so we seem to be something like 3.5-5M short. How he navigates out of that is going to define our offseason, not this trade.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Right...no one shall question the great BT.

Got it.

And the reason i dont like the Lucic deal is because

a) he sucks...and sucks badly...and has sucked badly for 2 1/2 seasons now.

b) There was an out on the Neal deal that does not exist on the Lucic deal. (Albeit one that no one wants to use if necessary, but at least it was there)

I want this team to get meaner and tougher...this does not do that however because the player cant play...sort of a key part of things. 7 goals in 122 hockey games on a team with McDavid and Draisaitl on it. Neal scored that many in 63 last year.

I believe keeping Neal one more year to see if there was a bounce back is WAY more favorable than acquiring a guy that is terrible at the game.

But its pretty clear the vast majority want to spin it into a positive somehow and that Treliving should be immune from criticism for it even though he is the very guy that created it....i dont.

Ways to grade your GM:
1) team on paper
2) trades
3) signings
4) drafting
...
...
...
...
74) swapping an under performing, untradeable player who had a dozen tries to turn his play around with another bad contract with hopes of filling a hole and getting more out of a player

Maybe wait a hot minute to judge a trade. Bad trades involve mismanagement of assets. James Neal was not an asset.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Right...no one shall question the great BT.

Got it.

And the reason i dont like the Lucic deal is because

a) he sucks...and sucks badly...and has sucked badly for 2 1/2 seasons now.

b) There was an out on the Neal deal that does not exist on the Lucic deal. (Albeit one that no one wants to use if necessary, but at least it was there)

I want this team to get meaner and tougher...this does not do that however because the player cant play...sort of a key part of things. 7 goals in 122 hockey games on a team with McDavid and Draisaitl on it. Neal scored that many in 63 last year.

I believe keeping Neal one more year to see if there was a bounce back is WAY more favorable than acquiring a guy that is terrible at the game.

But its pretty clear the vast majority want to spin it into a positive somehow and that Treliving should be immune from criticism for it even though he is the very guy that created it....i dont.

This take is so bad i dont know where to start. First off 4 years ago if you said second in the league most would have laughed yet here we are so im pretty sure one current bad contract isnt going to have him fired tomorrow.

Second everyones going buyout assuming he would ever be given the option which we dont know.
Also what happens when neal came in was a healthy scratch part way through next season what exactly would you get for him? At least looch can throw a hit instead if a hissy and his underlying numbers are pretty good.
Even the oilers would have laughed at that point if we said trade because at least lucic can bring something other than pouting and not giving a crap. You seem to think neal will have some kind of bounceback and i think your smoking the good sh##t
So let's assume he bounced back and scores 20 playing with mchyperbole. Your making the assumption he would do it here and i don't buy that for a moment even at 90 % off. The coach was done with him so the chances he would be back playing any significant time are pretty nuch non existent but you want to keep him here and hope he somehow breaks all of these cycles, not getting along with the coach, being an outcast in the locker room, as well as being 30 and not having any real skill other than his shot which blew all of last year? . Ok.

[ComixZone]

Transplant, why do you think Lucic sucks? What information are you using as the basis for your assessment? Is it from you personally watching him? His production point wise?

There’s some pretty good statistical evidence that shows he’s a fairly solid 2-way player who suffered a pretty rough year from an execution perspective in some pretty terrible circumstances. I think there’s good reason to believe he’ll bring more to the Flames than Neal did in 18/19.