Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[Yoho]

I love this trade Tre is betting his job on getting rid of this cancer that was invisible in regular season and then exploited in the playoffs to the point of healthy scratch. You want a good idea of what your worth is Mr. Neal?
Here it is.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Karl

Because Lucic is even slower than Neal so the fact that he is one of the best fighters and can hit people is mitigated by the fact that most players wouldn't be stupid enough to even try to fight him.

And he is too slow to often hit people effectively unless they're pretty much standing still because he can't skate well enough.

And the rest of his hockey skills (shot & stick handling) are far too gone to for him to be salvageable.

Lucic is not slower than Neal. You need to seriously watch some video and not listen to Oiler fans. For a guy too slow to hit people he sure racked up a pile of them last season.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Reading is hard. So many chicken-little crying over the NMC. The Flames Facebook feed, is full of so many idiots posting inaccuracies, it’s shocking that these are devoted fans.

Actually yeah, reading 66 pages is hard after working a 14. No need to be a Tuesday.

[Thor]

eeeeeeeewwwwww

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Let’s think about this objectively.
What’s the detriment to Lucic, relaxing his NMC for the expansion draft?
1) he isn’t chosen, so Flames can protect a proper asset (BT would hedge on this)
2) he IS chosen, and can play final 2 seasons near home. (Unless his production increases substantially, this is unlikely)

I’m confident he isn’t protected come June 2021.

Wait, did you just change from “y’all are idiots, he doesn’t have a NMC in his final years” to “well.... let’s think about this objectively!”

Hahaha Jesus. Whether he chooses to waive it or not isn’t in question. We can’t predict that. What we do KNOW, is he has that choice still.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Actually yeah, reading 66 pages is hard after working a 14. No need to be a Tuesday.

Let me save you the trouble:

Originally Posted by devo22

...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1152369375829274625

Originally Posted by sureLoss

A full NTC means full trade protection, but can be assigned to the minors, and exposed in an expansion draft.

A full NMC means full trade protection, cannot be assigned to the minors, and not exposed in an expansion draft.

A modified NTC with a NMC means there is a list of teams that can be or not be traded to plus the ability to not be assigned to the minors and not exposed in an expansion draft.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Let’s think about this objectively.
What’s the detriment to Lucic, relaxing his NMC for the expansion draft?
1) he isn’t chosen, so Flames can protect a proper asset (BT would hedge on this)
2) he IS chosen, and can play final 2 seasons near home. (Unless his production increases substantially, this is unlikely)

I’m confident he isn’t protected come June 2021.

This is all fine and good as an opinion on what may happen but we have idiots on the internet saying that it moves to a NTC in the final two years and is no longer a NMC. What do you say to those idiots?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is all fine and good as an opinion on what may happen but we have idiots on the internet saying that it moves to a NTC in the final two years and is no longer a NMC. What do you say to those idiots?

That reading is hard.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No one should even hint that this is anything but a goddamn fiasco of a deal for the Flames.

Stunned is one word.

Slobberknockered is another.

BT is done.

So we can't hint that it's anything but a fiasco? You're stunned and slobberknockered? Brad Treliving who was widely seen as one of our best GM's in history in March of this year WITH Jame Neal on the team is now toast?

Well at least you calmed yourself down and gave us a measured response to unpack.

[ripTDR]

curious as to how Lucic will slot in

[Nelson]

After sleeping on it, I think its important to say that I don't think its clear that Milan Lucic is actually a worse player than James Neal.
-James Neal has a greater offensive impact
-James Neal has a much greater chance of bouncing back offensively
-Milian Lucic's lines do remarkably well with respect to puck possession
-Perhaps the worst part of Milan Lucic is his penalty differential, which is absolutely abysmal (the Flames had better have a good PK)
-Milan Lucic is a more physical player than James Neal, even if he doesn't fight very often

I don't really know anything about this, but if James Neal was not a good fit with the team because he was very unhappy with his situation and contributed to a bad work environment, then that would be another reason for acquiring Milan Lucic.

However, I don't like this trade at all because:
-The buyout of James Neal is much better than the buyout of Milan Lucic (the Flames are now likely saddled with a horrendous contract for 4 years, although the Flames and Oilers have just proven no contract is truly untradeable).
-Milan Lucic may choose not to waive his NMC for the expansion draft (although I think he will because Seattle is close to Vancouver and he probably cares about his reputation in Calgary).

That's my attempt at a measured response to this trade.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

curious as to how Lucic will slot in

I think I heard Bennett moves to RW and Lucic slots in as the 3rd line LW.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Czarnik
LW - Quine - Philp (?)

As usual, I am assuming the Flames trade Frolik even though I like the player because of the need for cap space.

My prediction is that the 3rd line does surprisingly well with possessing the puck due to Lucic's huge rear end and Ryan's ability to win faceoffs but that it struggles to produce offence and eventually Mangiapane moves to 3rd line LW. At this point, it will produce more offence and the 4th line will be fine, plus with Lucic on the 4th line, he will take less penalties!

[Rando]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No one should even hint that this is anything but a goddamn fiasco of a deal for the Flames.

Stunned is one word.

Slobberknockered is another.

BT is done.

Originally Posted by jayswin

So we can't hint that it's anything but a fiasco? You're stunned and slobberknockered? Brad Treliving who was widely seen as one of our best GM's in history in March of this year WITH Jame Neal on the team is now toast?

Well at least you calmed yourself down and gave us a measured response to unpack.

And Slobberknockered definitely isn't a word.

[the_only_turek_fan]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/play...al/c-308305740

Iginla helped Lucic make the decision to waive his NTC.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Nelson

PROS
-Lucic has a more positive effect on his team's ability to possess the puck
-Lucic is better defensively
-Lucic has a reputation for being big and scary, even if he does not actually fight very much
-Lucic does lay a lot more hits than Neal
-The trade gives the Flames $500K more cap space and a conditional 3rd round pick
CONS
-Neal is better at helping his team generate offensive chances
-There is likely more potential upside for the Oilers because of the chance of a resurgent Neal
-Neal has a much better penalty differential
-The worst part of it for the Flames is that Lucic has a NMc

This is a succinct summary and how I feel about the deal. Thank you.

There is a net very small positive to this deal, but the NMC is a big negative for one reason. If Lucic literally can't play in the NHL anymore say in 1 or 2 years, this will kill the team's chances to ice a good roster because we will have almost $6 million tied up in a 13th forward.

Can't trade him.
Can't bury him in the minors.
Can't buy him out.

I don't worry too much about this year, or even next.

But with 4 years remaining, I sincerely hope that Lucic maintains at least replacement level player quality of play, otherwise this could turn out to be truly terrible.

[David Struch]

Assuming Frolík is dealt, I'd like to see these forward lines experimented with...

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lucic
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Bennett - Backlund - Ryan
Jankowski - Dubé - Czarnik

[the_only_turek_fan]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/edmonton...came-about/amp

Interesting. Neal wanted to go to Edmonton.

[I_H8_Crawford]

There's no doubt this will turn out terrible.
Desperation move by Treliving.

And someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if Lucic agrees to waive NMC for excision, does that not waive NMC overall, allowing flames to trade him wherever? Our assign to AHL?

That is a reason why he would not waive it.

Let's look at worst case scenario for both teams:
Oilers: Neal sucks, Oil buy him out next year and get a few million of cap space
Flames: Lucic sucks, Flames cannot buy out, Lucic doesn't waive NMC costing the Flames a better asset, Flames stuck with $5 Mill cap hit for a useless player for 4 more years.

Who took on more risk? And for that all the flames get is $600K in cap space relief and save the owners $7 million.

Its moves like this that show why this garbage franchise never really wants to win. Only way this makes sense is the owners wanted to save money.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Assuming Frolík is dealt, I'd like to see these forward lines experimented with...

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lucic
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Bennett - Backlund - Ryan
Jankowski - Dubé - Czarnik

No...

Lucic and Monny on the same line is a recipe for disaster.

Would much rather :

Gaudreau Monny Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Bennett
Mangiapane Ryan (player acquired in either Frolik or Brodie trade)
Lucic Jankowski Czarnik

Gio Anderson
Han Ham
Vali Stone

Rittich
Talbot

[FireGilbert]

I woke up with a hangover this morning and saw the news. It took me a quadruple take to figure out what happened. 15 hours later and I've finally read through this thread and processed things.

I am so happy Neal is gone. Has the be the worst signing and most disappointing player in Flames history. After that pathetic playoff performance he had to go.

I am so angry Lucic is a Flame. Being tough doesn't matter if your skates are stuck in cement.

I guess overall this makes me neutral. This is a huge gamble by Treliving and I hope it pays off. Trying to stay positive I will say at least Lucic, unlike Neal, might have the ability to flip a switch for the playoffs.