Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Your graph shows a drop in play for Gaudreau (and Czarnik as well for good measure) when with Neal. The only forward not dragged down was Tkachuk, and with 103 minutes (4 minutes less and he doesn't even make the chart) and barely a noticeable difference in quality, this is closer to a blip than anything else.

If anything this goes to show just how bad Neal was.

No one argues that Neal was good. The issue is how to best use him. There's pretty little chance for any kind of bounce back on Jankowski's wing IMO. I think Neal is a guy who needs minutes and good linemates. That's not a defence - it's just how I think he plays best. Peters should look at a lot of video on his successful years.

Now, if it doesn't work again, fine. It can't be much worse though.

[Toonage]

If they keep Neal, I would hope he gets time alongside Mangiapane-Ryan on the 3L. That, to me, is likely his best fit and best shot at rebounding.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one argues that Neal was good. The issue is how to best use him. There's pretty little chance for any kind of bounce back on Jankowski's wing IMO. I think Neal is a guy who needs minutes and good linemates. That's not a defence - it's just how I think he plays best. Peters should look at a lot of video on his successful years.

TheScorpion was actually suggesting that Neal, unlike Brouwer, had a positive impact on some of his teammates. That really wasn't the case last year. He hurt everyone he played with regularly. Tkachuk, in 100 minutes of playing together having less shots against but nearly the same less shots for, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[atb]

I’d prefer to see what Neal can bring with an extended offseason. He had back to back long playoff runs, which I really think resulted in the awful play we saw last year. Unless there’s some character issues we’re not aware of, would much rather see one more year of Neal than a swap with Lucic.

[neo45]

Neal could bounce back playing with Gaudreau but it would be to the detriment of the team. Prout could probably bank in 10 goals playing on that line.

The org’s goal isn’t to make Neal look less terrible it’s to win hockey games. He doesn’t do that for us on any line so until he makes huge changes on his end limit his ice time as much as possible

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by atb

I’d prefer to see what Neal can bring with an extended offseason. He had back to back long playoff runs, which I really think resulted in the awful play we saw last year. Unless there’s some character issues we’re not aware of, would much rather see one more year of Neal than a swap with Lucic.

Exactly. Lets see what a motivated Neal can do with a full summer to get in shape and work on his conditioning.

We already know who Lucic is when having long summers lol

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by neo45

Neal could bounce back playing with Gaudreau but it would be to the detriment of the team. Prout could probably bank in 10 goals playing on that line.

The org’s goal isn’t to make Neal look less terrible it’s to win hockey games. He doesn’t do that for us on any line so until he makes huge changes on his end limit his ice time as much as possible

So you think if he puts in the work this summer you don't give him a shot with top 6 minutes? That would be folly.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you think if he puts in the work this summer you don't give him a shot with top 6 minutes? That would be folly.

Not until he looks better on the ice


Other players are “putting work in” in the summer, too

[Toonage]

We assume everyone put in the work this summer. Why should he be gifted top end minutes by a coach that didn't trust him by the end of the year?

Earn your way back up.

[Flash Walken]

'motivated james neal' sounds like a fresh new meme.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

TheScorpion was actually suggesting that Neal, unlike Brouwer, had a positive impact on some of his teammates. That really wasn't the case last year. He hurt everyone he played with regularly. Tkachuk, in 100 minutes of playing together having less shots against but nearly the same less shots for, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

He didn't say that. He said, in limited minutes, the pairings worked OK. It's not a ringing endorsement, it's an indication of the type of player Neal needs to play with. Both Gaudreau and Tkachuk play at a slower end to end pace and like to control pucks in the offensive zone. That Neal could gel with that kind of player makes sense to me.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you think if he puts in the work this summer you don't give him a shot with top 6 minutes? That would be folly.

If he actually puts the work in and bounces back to ~2017 Neal, then the Bennett / Neal combo will be a dominant line and it won't matter that they're not top six. If Jankowski doesn't cut the mustard you take Jankowski off and put someone else there. I have been proposing a Mangiapane - Bennett - Neal line for some time and that is more than enough for Neal to work with.

Neal's job is to be James Neal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

We assume everyone put in the work this summer. Why should he be gifted top end minutes by a coach that didn't trust him by the end of the year?

Earn your way back up.

No one is saying don't earn it. I think everyone assumes the test would come in camp.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one is saying don't earn it. I think everyone assumes the test would come in camp.

No I think some people believe he should get that come the season. I think that was inferred.

"He worked out all summer. Give him top 6 time."

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think it is more, "He worked out all summer, maybe he will bounce back." Not unreasonable and not definitive that he will bounce back.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

'motivated james neal' sounds like a fresh new meme.

#youngandfresh

[Toonage]

At work so I can't create a meme, nor do I know how

#oldandstale

But I can see it:

Works out all summer so he can do kegstands

Motivated James Neal

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

TheScorpion was actually suggesting that Neal, unlike Brouwer, had a positive impact on some of his teammates. That really wasn't the case last year. He hurt everyone he played with regularly. Tkachuk, in 100 minutes of playing together having less shots against but nearly the same less shots for, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

But it was? Did you not read the graph I presented? Neal improved both Gaudreau and especially Tkachuk defensively in their limited minutes together with marginal negative impact on their offense.

Here's Brouwer's chart from 2016-17 by the way, see if you can spot a bit of a difference:

Spoiler!

Brouwer was uniquely deleterious. Neal is not close to his level of ineptitude.

[Buff]

James Neal is motivated. Does that mean his is still capable? You would think a player doesn't just fall off a cliff so suddenly, but it happens. Did his lack of motivation in the last off season(s) hamper his ability to rebound? I sure hope not. I want to like James Neal as a Calgary Flame. Let's see if this pays off.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Buff

James Neal is motivated. Does that mean his is still capable? You would think a player doesn't just fall off a cliff so suddenly, but it happens. Did his lack of motivation in the last off season(s) hamper his ability to rebound? I sure hope not. I want to like James Neal as a Calgary Flame. Let's see if this pays off.

It's funny, because Neal was pretty atrocious in Vegas from an analytical standpoint. He was bad! But what kept him aloft -- and what kept him scoring -- was playing with two similarly-paced and higher-skilled linemates in Haula and Perron.

Keep the Mangiapane and Ryan chemistry going. And slide Neal right into Frolik's soon-to-be-vacated spot on line 2, where he can play with two high-skilled linemates and work well with them without dragging them down. This isn't a Brouwer situation at all.