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Old 07-06-2019, 01:11 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
The Flames were looking for a guy to backup and platoon with bsd. That defined the type of guy they would get. The so called other options likely weren’t interested in a situation where there is a guy management has called their starter
You're probably right, and I hope things go well with a platoon, and that Talbot or Rittich emerges as a solid #1. But there is good reason to question Treliving on goalies. The best that can be said is that he has treaded water on the goalie market since he began, squandering picks along the way, while several other better options have been signed by many other teams.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:16 PM   #182
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Treliving and crew should be as sure about Talbot as any goalie they've acquired.

Only been scouting him and pining for him for the past 4-5 years.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:18 PM   #183
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Not the easiest of positions to fill. Not a lot of Kippers out there
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:27 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Fan in Exile View Post
You're probably right, and I hope things go well with a platoon, and that Talbot or Rittich emerges as a solid #1. But there is good reason to question Treliving on goalies. The best that can be said is that he has treaded water on the goalie market since he began, squandering picks along the way, while several other better options have been signed by many other teams.
Right and he’s been in on several of those.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:47 PM   #185
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Default Official: Flames sign Cam Talbot (1 yr, $2.75mil)

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You're probably right, and I hope things go well with a platoon, and that Talbot or Rittich emerges as a solid #1. But there is good reason to question Treliving on goalies. The best that can be said is that he has treaded water on the goalie market since he began, squandering picks along the way, while several other better options have been signed by many other teams.
On the contrary, I would say that is fairly pessimistic take on things. The best that can be said is that Treliving has been consistently active and determined to upgrade the position, has targeted several high end players to fill it, but that deals have fallen through for a variety of reasons. While he has not yet solved the problem, the players he has targeted have looked good in the places they have played.



So, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between these two interpretations of the situation.
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:07 PM   #186
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Talbot: oh I hate folding sheets

Treliving: that's your jersey

Talbot: well whatever it is it's a 2 man job where's Gaudreau

Treliving: he's up in his room, Gaudreau get down here we need you to help fold talbots Jersey!
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Old 07-06-2019, 02:16 PM   #187
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Escaped Edmonton ??

He’s a masochistic. He signed in Calgary so he could be closer to Edmonton.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:49 PM   #188
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Remember folks, the “educated” outlook amongst media “professionals” is always that any Calgary success is just an outlier to the expected status quo of abject failure.
Well the past shows that there not wrong......
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:17 PM   #189
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Remember folks, the “educated” outlook amongst media “professionals” is always that any Calgary success is just an outlier to the expected status quo of abject failure.
Unless the Flames have about 4-5 years of sustained success now, that is also my outlook.

Look at teams like San Jose, Boston, WSH who year in and year out are making the playoffs, rebuilding on the fly and icing competitive squads.

I want the Flames to be that with a few Cups sprinkled in. Basically, Pens.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:01 PM   #190
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Treliving may have been active and tried to trade for the better goalies but he didn't get it done so I'm not sure why people are defending his track record on that. Goaltending has been a weakness for a lot of years now, if we'd have had Fleury, Bishop or even Talbot the last few years who knows if it would have made a difference. I get that we want to win every trade but sometimes you just have to get the deal done.


I do really like the Talbot signing though, I think he is going to have a big year.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:52 AM   #191
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I think Talbot is a good gamble. The BOA will be a little weird with the tender bender that's gone on, so I think it's definitely a positive that both guys will have a bit of hunger to succeed right off the bat.


For those that think Treliving didn't both to address goaltending, Treliving was in on the following goalies:

Murray: Pittsburgh wanted to see how Murray would do in the NHL before trading him. Rest is history.

Bishop #1: Tampa wanted a price that was too high. King was also rumored to have vetoed a 7x7.

Bishop #2: Couldn't get King on the phone to reply in time. So he was traded to the Kings for cheap.

Bishop #3: Supposedly the flames offered just shy of 6x6, but because of how many times a trade had been nixed in the past, he decided to go to Dallas.

Talbot: Sather supposedly just wanted to do the Oilers a solid.

Raanta: Price from NYR to Arizona was ridiculous

Grubauer: came with a significant salary anchor. We couldn't afford the cost to buy out Orpik.

Andersen: Ducks wanted a premium from us. If we had received the 1st from the Russell trade (missed by 1 game I think), then Andersen might have been a Flame as the Flames would have been able to offer a better package (plus inter-conference premium) than Toronto.

Bobrovsky: Likely can't fit the cap anyways and it seemed like he was dead set on someplace temperate like Florida.

Varlamov: Could be for reasons of cap we couldn't get him.

Lehner: I wonder and think that at the time, we weren't well developed yet in terms of addressing mental illness even though we were developing a program for substance abuse. I believe Lehner said in an article that NYI being willing to help him address his mental illness was a part of why he chose to sign with them. I also think he probably wanted to stay relatively close to "home" by sticking with a team out East after playing in Ottawa and Buffalo.

MAF: I believe Pittsburgh wanted our 1st that year. Treliving didn't want to pay it, so MAF was offered in the expansion draft with a pick I believe to Vegas

Kuemper: This might be the only legitimate flub. But who knows.

Mrazek: Treliving doesn't like players with attitude problems. Might be why he passed on Mrazek.


and then there's a litany of young guys that might have been good gambles at the times, but in hindsight, it's a good thing we didn't get them.

- Pickard
- Darling
- Forsberg


Yeah, sure. If it's about the bottom line, Treliving has not yet addressed the goal tending in a passable manner. But he hasn't put us in a situation where we are anchored with a bad contract like Reimer or Darling which is also a positive. He definitely isn't an idiot who thinks there's no issues with goal tending, so it shows he isn't clueless in evaluating the roster he has. The guy is trying, that's all we can really ask at this point. In general, he is always taking small steps to improve the roster (not just goal tending) of which some work great and some... not so much. If you look at a few teams out there, we haven't stepped forward as much as some teams, but we haven't stepped back as badly as some teams either.

I trust in Treliving. Not blindly. But because his methodology and approach is one I agree with. I also like how he doesn't do panic moves. I think sooner or later we will get the goalie of our future, but for now, it doesn't seem like he ran into any scenarios for a goalie that wouldn't have blown a significant hole into the roster elsewhere.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:15 AM   #192
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I don't know how much good it does to rehearse Treliving's historical pursuit of starting goaltenders for the Flames, but I will say this much—and I honestly think his tenure can be boiled rather simply down to this...

Treliving's job is to build a Championship team, and since the day he arrived in Calgary he has taken incremental steps toward achieving that goal. Team building takes time, it is not linear, and the end result is not realized on a micro-level with equal progression at every position. I think the fact that he has been in active pursuit of a long-term starting goalie for the Flames is a good thing, and while the stop-gaps in the meantime have met with mixed results the acquisitions of Elliott, Smith, and now Talbot need also to be evaluated in the same context with drafting Matthew Tkachuk to trades for Hamilton, Hamonic, Hanifin and Lindholm. In short: if Treliving had made plays for a high profile goalie like Bishop or Anderssen when the opportunity was there, it would have come at a significant cost, and the rest of the team would look different today because of it.

It's the remaining hole to fill, and at this point management seems to believe that they may already have the goalie in the system to fill it, be that David Rittich or Tyler Parsons.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:00 AM   #193
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Mrazek: Treliving doesn't like players with attitude problems. Might be why he passed on Mrazek.
What's the back story on that?
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:19 AM   #194
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What's the back story on that?
Mrazek was really pouty his last two years in Detroit, which was an underlying reason for his move to Philadelphia in 2017.

But I suspect there is nothing to the idea that Treliving passed on Mrazek because of "attitude problems." I think it is as simple as the Flames identifying David Rittich as a 40-50 game starter in 2019–20, and really only having room to pursue a backup goalie who will at best split starts with Rittich. The pool of goalies who fit that description was quite small, and did not include Mrazek.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:56 PM   #195
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Mrazek was really pouty his last two years in Detroit, which was an underlying reason for his move to Philadelphia in 2017.

But I suspect there is nothing to the idea that Treliving passed on Mrazek because of "attitude problems." I think it is as simple as the Flames identifying David Rittich as a 40-50 game starter in 2019–20, and really only having room to pursue a backup goalie who will at best split starts with Rittich. The pool of goalies who fit that description was quite small, and did not include Mrazek.
The time Mrazek would have been on our radar (around the expansion draft I think) was just before we acquired Smith. At that time, we were in the process of saying farewells to Elliott and Johnson and none of Gilles, MacDonald, Parsons or Rittich looked ready. Rittich was better than Gilles only by a hair. He would have been in a similar boat as the evaluation of Grubauer I believe. Rittich would not have been part of the Mrazek consideration the first time, perhaps that same evaluation kept him out of the running when he went UFA (or we just felt better with Smith and a young guy).

In Detroit, Mrazek had been platooning well with Howard and looking like the heir apparent, but there were some open conflicts with management and threats to go to arbitration for his contract. Mrazek's play began deteriorating in Detroit, but it seemed like he wasn't taking responsibility for it. He was moved to the Flyers who didn't seem interested in keeping him and later on he ended up on the Canes.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:59 PM   #196
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What's the back story on that?
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2018/02...n-from-mrazek/

Here's an article with comments from Blashill and some discussion about Holland's thinking.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:49 AM   #197
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Of interest:
https://www.tsn.ca/is-talbot-primed-...gary-1.1338940
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:52 AM   #198
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Interesting to see the history of near misses on goalie acquisitions. Under Treliving’s tenure (and maybe previously), Flames seem to be one of the less discreet organizations when it comes to leaking potential transactions. I think this was debated in another thread already, just found it interesting.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:28 AM   #199
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Thanks for linking.

Goalies are always tough to predict and I think looking holistically at a bigger sample is the best bet for goalies - and in that case Talbot performs well.

This image from the article really tells a story IMO.



If you limit it to guys who have played at least 10k minutes then Talbot is third on that list behind Gibson, and Andersen.

And looking at the other guys on the list a season of inconsistency for goalies is not out of the norm.

Price: Had a .900 save percentage in 17/18
Bobrovsky: Dropped to a .908 to bounce back to a .931 the following year
Halak: Bounced around a lot in his career.
Holtby: .907 in 17/18 and had lost his starting job before winning it back in the playoffs and leading the caps to a Cup
Greiss: .892 in 17/18 for the Islanders, only to bounce back to a .927 last year
Bishop: Dropped to a .910 in Tampa, lost his job to Vasy, and got traded. Ended up with a .934 again last season

So over the long term Talbot has been a top goalie, and really it's not that uncommon for goalies to have a "down season", especially in the small sample of less than 40 games that Talbot played in 18/19.

It's funny because the Oilers have done this before with Dubnyk, and it's almost the exact same scenario.

Dubnyk:
Over three seasons from 2010-2013: 120 games, .917 save percentage

Then in a single season during 13/14 (EDM/MTL): 34 games, .891 save percentage

Goes to Arizona/Minnesota and the following two years 2014-2016: 135 GP, .923 save percentage.

Talbot
Over three seasons from 2015-2018: 196 GP, .914 save percentage

Then in a single season in 18/19 (EDM/PHI): 35 GP, .892 save percentage

Hmm wonder if he could bounce back

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Old 07-18-2019, 09:46 AM   #200
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^ Given his experience, with any team you could count on an bounce back season.

With last year's Oilers, where Lowe finally got enough trust of Katz to retake the organizational reigns and his ego pushed the coach and GM (who had previous taken his PHOP role) out and basically abandon the season as soon as McLellan was fired, there's a better chance of a bounce back for any player now in a new situation.

Just like whever Reider and Poolparty end up.
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