Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[Jiri Hrdina]

Playoffs are a fraction of his games played
Rnh is a much better player

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If Neal is NHL-caliber. Otherwise I'd put Czarnik, Phillips, Quine, or Dube there. Mangiapane and Bennett are both pretty versatile players so they really just need someone well-rounded with them.

I'd also try Jankowski in the Frolik role as I think his shooting skill, size, and defensive effort is an asset with the creation of the other two.

You could also put Ryan on Bennett’s RW. I think that would give him a very good chance of success.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Jankowski
Mangiapane - Bennett - Ryan
Dube - Quine - Neal/Czarnik
- - Czarnik/Neal

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

To the Hamptons!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

What do you mean by "primary point producers". I can't figure out how Bennett and Mangiapaine would be ranked anything points related 5 and 6 on this team.

When I say primary points, I mean when you take secondary assists out. First of all, you're gonna ask, why do we take secondary assists out? It's not that I'm sayingthey're not an important part of some scoring plays, but they're statistically very difficult to predict from one season to the next compared to primary assists and goals. I recommend reading this:


https://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...ondary-assists


We saw one example of it last year.


2015-18 Elias Lindholm
1.09 P1/60 + 0.30 A2/60


2018-19 Elias Lindholm
1.2 P1/60 + 0.78 A2/60



Anyways, here are how the 2018-19 Flames forwards ranked in terms of 5v5 P1/60





Now Mangiapane didn't have a huge sample size and it's possible he regresses (though my eye test tells me he won't likely) but Bennett's been around for four seasons and his career P1/60 of 1.21 is pretty decent.

[dammage79]

So secondary assists aren't relevant anymore?
What in tarnation?
And here lies my issue with advanced stats. Cherry picking. You're not using all of the facts to form a reasonable argument, you're cherry picking info to suit your argument.

Who cares how the points comes, they just better come. If Lindholm score 100 secondary assists and not one goal, he still improved his point totals and sets a career high in points.

A point has a value of 1. Taking away any to suit your needs is silly.

There's no science here. How hard is it to just say, "I'd like to see Bennett at center with Mangipane on his wing, I believe they could do well together." And just leave it at that?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So secondary assists aren't relevant anymore?

Way to read.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So secondary assists aren't relevant anymore?
What in tarnation?
And here lies my issue with advanced stats. Cherry picking. You're not using all of the facts to form a reasonable argument, you're cherry picking info to suit your argument.

Who cares how the points comes, they just better come. If Lindholm score 100 secondary assists and not one goal, he still improved his point totals and sets a career high in points.

A point has a value of 1. Taking away any to suit your needs is silly.

There's no science here. How hard is it to just say, "I'd like to see Bennett at center with Mangipane on his wing, I believe they could do well together." And just leave it at that?

That's not fair.

Recent history suggests that second assists have less to do with a scoring play, or at least predicting future scoring, then primary assists. Makes sense when you think of it.

A guy that sets someone up or finishes something off is generally more important as a sustainable thing to track than the guy that chips the puck out, and then has his linemates undress a defense pairing.

It's not a vacuum so it's imperfect, but it is a line that you can draw and see where players may be having mathematically unlucky or lucky seasons.

Bennett was literally last place on the Flames for secondary assists last year and 5th in primary. He was right in the heart of the team's best forwards when it came to differential (A1-A2), at second for disparity behind Monahan but ahead of Gaudreau and Backlund.

Generally suggests better future production and a hard luck season.

[ComixZone]

Those critical of Bennett confuse me. To start - yeah, if we can snag RNH in a Bennett trade? Well, RNH is the better player so I'd be stoked. Barring someone absolutely overpaying for Bennett, there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic for Bennett's future, so why the negative feelings towards Bennett?

Bennett contributed to a limited degree to the best regular season this organization has had. Come playoff time, he was our most productive and impactful forward - so why is there negativity towards him? For what? You want more from your 3rd line winger in the regular season than he has been contributing? He brings a competitive edge and embodies team play with how he stands up for his teammates. Bennett also puts up points at the level of a 3rd line player while being the best player on our 3rd line - which to me also points the fact that we should be looking to upgrade the other parts of the 3rd line, not subtracting Bennett. The nixed Kadri trade shows the organization's desire to improve upon that line as well.

He's a good 3rd line player right now when you look at the full package he brings, and I do think he could bring his play to a new level on the 2nd line when it comes to production - but if that doesn't come to pass, he's a very good piece for the 3rd line and I'm happy with that.

[PepsiFree]

All this because because dumb Bob Stauffer says “er what do you guys think of Sam Bennett.”

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Playoffs are a fraction of his games played
Rnh is a much better player

Hope the arbitration panel finds and takes seriously this small post.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Playoffs are a fraction of his games played

Which would you rather have:

Gio/Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm career years in the regular season and their no-show in the playoffs or

Martin Gelinas having a 18 goal 35 pts run of the mill regular season and then having 8 goals -15 pts in the playoffs and 3 series winning goals.



Lot of regular season heroics by Flames that pale in comparison to his playoff heroics.

[TheScorpion]

I'd rather have a brain, Ricardo, so thankfully I'm not a strawman. But I see one in your post.

Seriously, you are aware that the Flames are perfectly capable of keeping Bennett and the core, right? They won't trade Bennett unless it makes sense.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hope the arbitration panel finds and takes seriously this small post.

Yeah I'm with Jiri.

The arbitration panel by it's very directive isn't supposed to be scouring the internet for information. They're only supposed to be looking at the brief provided by the Flames, and the one by Bennett's agent. If Bennett's agent is using fan forums the procedure won't take that long!

Secondly, it's not going to arbitration. He filed to make sure he didn't get left to the last minute because of the Tkachuk contract.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by 868904

At his best, Turris is a dynamic skilled player with a good shot and a good skater.

I don't think the Stajan comparison is relevant. The skill set is very different.

I don't know what happened last year, but prior to that, he was a very consistent 20 goal, 50 point centre, with the ability to put up 60 plus points when paired with a top playmaking winger (Mark Stone), which the Flames happen to have.

Turris's skating and premium centre position should keep him more effective than Neal moving forward. Especially if the Neal we saw last year is what he's going to continue to be. Neal was completely ineffective, he could not skate and he had no velocity on his shot.

At least Turris can be a two way centre if his offense dies. If Neal isn't scoring, he can't do anything else as we have already seen.

While most of you said is fair, I want to point out that last year after his injuries Turris was NOT a two way center. He was outright bad at both ends.

[Heavy Jack]

What about Brodie + Jankowski + Czarnik for Hopkins + Puljujarvi

Is that palatable? Would Edmonton do it? I see it as Brodie + Jankowski for RNH and Czarnik for Puljujarvi.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What about Brodie + Jankowski + Czarnik for Hopkins + Puljujarvi

Is that palatable? Would Edmonton do it? I see it as Brodie + Jankowski for RNH and Czarnik for Puljujarvi.

It’s definitely palatable for the Flames from my perspective.

[Vinny01]

Dialing it back to the Kadri trade and the rumored deal being Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri and Brown. In my opinion RNH really doesn’t have any more value than Kadri. He is signed for $1.5M more per season and has 2 years of term left as opposed to 3. Looking at Brown it can be argued that Puljujarvi has higher value but again debatable.

When looking at the Oilers need a top pairing D man who can play on the right side while being able to move the puck and add offense has been a need for a decade. Brodie is not a perfect fit but would immediately take that spot playing with Klefbom. The Oilers have a much greater need on the wing than up the middle right now so I could see them desiring Bennett more than Jankowski. This appeases McDavid and gets him a winger that can keep up pace wise and mix it up in the scrums.

So looking at the failed Leafs deal I can see the revised Oilers deal being:
To Edm: Bennett, Brodie
To CGY: RNH, Puljujarvi.

In reality I can’t see a massive swap happening between these teams but it is the dog days of summer and we haven’t see Tre make his move outside the blocked leafs deal.

[stang]

I'd trade Draisaitl for Sam straight up.



Haha just messed up your guys cap situation!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Dude I don't have a problem with you talking back the Bennett just needs a chance crowd; honestly makes sense to me.

But you are in real danger of being equally on the rumble strips on the other side of the highway.

Bennett has third line production, and towards the top of that tier, ... an average #9 guy. His metrics suggest better things happen when he's on the ice, but he and his linemates don't finish for whatever reason. Could be a terrible shot, bad vision, bad luck or a combination.

But your need to make him replacement level in arguments is taking away from your point.

Wait, what???

I'm on the rumble strips of the other side of the highway when I suggest that Sam Bennett is a player that doesn't move the needle and is a player the Flames can improve upon? Come on Bingo, I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

You just admitted that Sam Bennett is an average #9 forward. That means he's one over-performance by a rookie from being relegated to the 4th line. Are we seriously going to go back-and-forth over a player of this level? Bennett is quickly heading to Chris Clark territory, who was also another #9 level forward for the Flame during his time with the team. His metrics suggest one thing, but the actual outcomes suggest another.

On his performance, it can't be bad luck. Not after four years in the show and experiencing the same output in three consecutive seasons. I appreciate the physical edge he brings to the game, but in the big picture he is a player that has to perform and produce more than he does. It also frames what he should be making for salary. Might explain why Treliving is willing to let this go to arbitration, or explore trade opportunities for Bennett. There comes a point where a player has to step up, and for Sam I think this time has come and gone. Sam is what he is. The big question is where does he fit on the team and at what cost? I don't see the potential to pay anything more than $2.5M, and based on contracts signed this summer, he's probably worth substantially less than that. So what do you think he's worth at the level of player you suggest?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Dialing it back to the Kadri trade and the rumored deal being Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri and Brown.

I believe Brown was being flipped to a third team to reduce Brodie’s cap.

So, Brodie and Janko for Kadri.



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