Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why do I hold the view I do? Because Sam Bennett has done very little since his rookie season. Because 26-27 points doesn't impress me. Because I don't think Bennett is a very good two-way hockey player and he is continually getting outscored by significant margins. Mostly I'm tired of the hype. I'm tired of the belief that Sam Bennett will suddenly find something in his game that is obviously missing. He has 312 games under his belt. He is done developing. It's not like he's going to magically become a smarter player or develop some new skill. Sam's best trait is his willingness to play physically and try really hard. I'm also really tired of hearing about a stretch of five games when the whole team shat the bed. I'm sorry, but I don't look past a real mediocre season just because a guy played hard during a very short playoff appearance. Mike Smith played really hard during the post season as well and I couldn't be happier to see him in an Oilers' jersey, because he was really mediocre to poor all season and the team is better without him. Bennett is in the same boat IMO. He's a player we can easily improve upon. I think we will miss his physical play, but that is a skill we should be able to go out and get if Treliving seriously thinks that is a problem.
And no, I didn't see any great strides under Peters. He's still the same player that has a muffin of a shot, that has plays die on stick, can't convert glorious opportunities, has a penchant for dumb penalties, and is on the ice for too many goals against. Bennett is a guy that should be looking over his shoulder because Dillon Dube and Andrew Mangipagne are looking for a full time gig, and Bennett's lack of production make him an easy target to be replaced. I would not be surprised to see Treliving deal him if there is an opportunity to fill a gap elsewhere on the roster. The sum of Sam Bennett's parts are underwhelming and the only reason he gets the latitude he does in these parts is because of his draft pedigree.

Do you feel similar about paragraphs?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why do I hold the view I do? Because Sam Bennett has done very little since his rookie season. Because 26-27 points doesn't impress me. Because I don't think Bennett is a very good two-way hockey player and he is continually getting outscored by significant margins. Mostly I'm tired of the hype. I'm tired of the belief that Sam Bennett will suddenly find something in his game that is obviously missing. He has 312 games under his belt. He is done developing. It's not like he's going to magically become a smarter player or develop some new skill. Sam's best trait is his willingness to play physically and try really hard. I'm also really tired of hearing about a stretch of five games when the whole team shat the bed. I'm sorry, but I don't look past a real mediocre season just because a guy played hard during a very short playoff appearance. Mike Smith played really hard during the post season as well and I couldn't be happier to see him in an Oilers' jersey, because he was really mediocre to poor all season and the team is better without him. Bennett is in the same boat IMO. He's a player we can easily improve upon. I think we will miss his physical play, but that is a skill we should be able to go out and get if Treliving seriously thinks that is a problem.
And no, I didn't see any great strides under Peters. He's still the same player that has a muffin of a shot, that has plays die on stick, can't convert glorious opportunities, has a penchant for dumb penalties, and is on the ice for too many goals against. Bennett is a guy that should be looking over his shoulder because Dillon Dube and Andrew Mangipagne are looking for a full time gig, and Bennett's lack of production make him an easy target to be replaced. I would not be surprised to see Treliving deal him if there is an opportunity to fill a gap elsewhere on the roster. The sum of Sam Bennett's parts are underwhelming and the only reason he gets the latitude he does in these parts is because of his draft pedigree.

Dude I don't have a problem with you talking back the Bennett just needs a chance crowd; honestly makes sense to me.

But you are in real danger of being equally on the rumble strips on the other side of the highway.

Bennett has third line production, and towards the top of that tier, ... an average #9 guy. His metrics suggest better things happen when he's on the ice, but he and his linemates don't finish for whatever reason. Could be a terrible shot, bad vision, bad luck or a combination.

But your need to make him replacement level in arguments is taking away from your point.

[sa226]

Obviously only an anecdote,

But Brodie was the only defender that could close the gap and defend rushes by the likes of Mcdavid and Mckinnon. Everyone else had to play the angles and give them space so they wouldn't blow passed them. Brodie was quite effective against Mcdavid especially of closing the gap and angling him to the corners.

[browna]

The easiest fall back excuse used by fans for players is poor linemates or not enough ice time, which are propogated by the big bad mean coach who has a vendetta (Brent Sutter and Dustin Boyd, from a decade back, as an example).

Sam has had three coaches, all different styles, who have all come in with a clean slate, and come to the same conclusion as to where he fits on the roster and on the line chart.

He shows, in small pockets, such as a few playoff games, why he got drafted where he was. People though are clinging to that hope because of where he was drafted and his thus untapped potential. But those number of games where he looks like a top 10 picks are out numbed by the ones where he is out worked and outplayed by 4th liners and free agents picked up in Europe.

He took longer then the Flames liked to re sign last time 2 summers ago, and now arbitration this year. I don't think he was happy with his role then, but then he got some Jagr time which gave him a bump, but thst seems to have been a phase, and I don't think he is happy with his role now by any means.

But he hasn't proven that he can unseat anyone higher on the chart yet, consistently, to backup his unhappiness. Whatever it is, it's not clicking, and I don't know if the Flames can wait for him fumbling through another couple of seasons without taking a significant step up and I don't think he will want to be here anymore if that was the case either. Be very interesting to see where arbitration settles.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by sa226

Obviously only an anecdote,

But Brodie was the only defender that could close the gap and defend rushes by the likes of Mcdavid and Mckinnon. Everyone else had to play the angles and give them space so they wouldn't blow passed them. Brodie was quite effective against Mcdavid especially of closing the gap and angling him to the corners.

This is why I'm glad they have held on to Kylington. He is by far the best skater on the blueline. I just don't know how he fits in.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

This is why I'm glad they have held on to Kylington. He is by far the best skater on the blueline. I just don't know how he fits in.

I think Kylington is going to be a very good offensive D man who would be great to plug in when Gio is done. Unfortunately I think he will be the guy Seattle will poach from us.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think Kylington is going to be a very good offensive D man who would be great to plug in when Gio is done. Unfortunately I think he will be the guy Seattle will poach from us.

I wonder if they can hide him by keeping him in the AHL all year. Also, if the Flames do 7-3-1 and protect Valimaki, Andersson, Hanifin, then they might take Gio to be their first captain.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by browna

The easiest fall back excuse used by fans for players is poor linemates or not enough ice time

Well..... yeah.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by browna

The easiest fall back excuse used by fans for players is poor linemates or not enough ice time, which are propogated by the big bad mean coach who has a vendetta (Brent Sutter and Dustin Boyd, from a decade back, as an example).

Sam has had three coaches, all different styles, who have all come in with a clean slate, and come to the same conclusion as to where he fits on the roster and on the line chart.

He shows, in small pockets, such as a few playoff games, why he got drafted where he was. People though are clinging to that hope because of where he was drafted and his thus untapped potential. But those number of games where he looks like a top 10 picks are out numbed by the ones where he is out worked and outplayed by 4th liners and free agents picked up in Europe.

He took longer then the Flames liked to re sign last time 2 summers ago, and now arbitration this year. I don't think he was happy with his role then, but then he got some Jagr time which gave him a bump, but thst seems to have been a phase, and I don't think he is happy with his role now by any means.

But he hasn't proven that he can unseat anyone higher on the chart yet, consistently, to backup his unhappiness. Whatever it is, it's not clicking, and I don't know if the Flames can wait for him fumbling through another couple of seasons without taking a significant step up and I don't think he will want to be here anymore if that was the case either. Be very interesting to see where arbitration settles.

Bob Hartley played him on the 2nd line, where he had success.

Glen Gulutzan was a goofball awful coach.

Bill Peters, I thought, used Bennett pretty effectively and Bennett in turn performed decently for his role. Tree almost acquiring Kadri would have given the Flames the basis for the best 3rd line they've had in recent history. Bennett - Kadri - ? would have been great to see.

I'm not sitting here thinking Bennett is about to explode into a offensive tyrannosaurus, but I think there's good progress with him. Two years under Gulutzan were pretty much a waste, which is on Bennett and Gulutzan. Last year under Peters though, Bennett found ways to contribute when he wasn't scoring. Some more natural progression, and we likely have a 40 point player who plays with an edge through his prime years. Bennett likely does want more of an opportunity to play with better players, and with Frolik on the way out he likely will have that chance. Guy stands up for his teammates and on a team that lacks intensity at key times, Bennett does not.

[ricardodw]

If Bennett has a chance to go to Edmonton and have to "battle" Ty Rattie, Kassian and Chaission for some McDavid time he would be counting the days til he is a UFA.

Even to have this kind of rumor going around is bad news for the Flames.

He is being compared even up for a RNH who got 6M for all 5 of his RFA years. If the arbitration panel reads this thread they would award Bennett whatever he is asking plus 10%

Does he get 1 year or 2 out of Arbitration? If it is 2 he comes out a UFA at the end of this contract.

[SeanCharles]

I say give him another shot at center. Have Lindholm be his RWer as a backup and support.

Gaudreau-Monahan-_______
Tkachuk-Bennett-Lindholm

As if that wouldn't be a fun line to watch. They all have a bit of edge to their game.

I know the idea will get ripped to shreds but we have too many LHed wingers and I'd like to keep all of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett, Mangiapane and Dube.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I say give him another shot at center. Have Lindholm be his RWer as a backup and support.

Gaudreau-Monahan-_______
Tkachuk-Bennett-Lindholm

As if that wouldn't be a fun line to watch. They all have a bit of edge to their game.

I know the idea will get ripped to shreds but we have too many LHed wingers and I'd like to keep all of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett, Mangiapane and Dube.

That’s another idea. I guess I just remember the Flames finally moving Bennett to LW after he played C and finding out he was a much better winger than C. I have my doubts Bennett will be good at C.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If Bennett has a chance to go to Edmonton and have to "battle" Ty Rattie, Kassian and Chaission for some McDavid time he would be counting the days til he is a UFA.

Even to have this kind of rumor going around is bad news for the Flames.

He is being compared even up for a RNH who got 6M for all 5 of his RFA years. If the arbitration panel reads this thread they would award Bennett whatever he is asking plus 10%

Does he get 1 year or 2 out of Arbitration? If it is 2 he comes out a UFA at the end of this contract.

Wdf.
You think an aribitration panel would care what’s written on a forum?
Why are these rumours bad news
You have some really odd opinions

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Wdf.
You think an aribitration panel would care what’s written on a forum?
Why are these rumours bad news
You have some really odd opinions

I think his point is that on one hand we think SB is a $2M player....on the other hand we want to trade him for RNH who is (in my opinion) paid pretty close to fair value at $6M. Obviously there is a disconnect there.

I dont know where I fall on this. I am open to trading SB...but of all the teams...the risk of him exploding in Edmonton is too painful from an emotional standpoint...

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I think his point is that on one hand we think SB is a $2M player....on the other hand we want to trade him for RNH who is (in my opinion) paid pretty close to fair value at $6M. Obviously there is a disconnect there.



I dont know where I fall on this. I am open to trading SB...but of all the teams...the risk of him exploding in Edmonton is too painful from an emotional standpoint...

If he does, then it doesn’t mean he would’ve done the same here. I’m fine with trading Bennett if it makes the Flames better, as that’s all we have to worry about.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I guess I just remember the Flames finally moving Bennett to LW after he played C and finding out he was a much better winger than C.

Misleading... as a C he was one of our best players in the 2017 playoffs on a line with Versteeg (no longer in league) and Chiasson (who a year later was a 13th forward in Washington). That was at age 20 when he still struggled with faceoffs (he's far improved at faceoffs now for whatever that is worth).

The next year, he was expected to carry an awful Bartkowski-Stone pair at ES, Versteeg was atrocious, and his RW was a rotation of Lazar and Brouwer. There was a couple games where he centered a Versteeg - Bennett - Jagr line, and they were dominant in every way besides puck luck (Craig Andersson and Jonathan Quick stood on their heads). Even then, they were a net zero in their ridiculously limited time together.

When Bennett was moved to LW, it was a mild success because Jankowski was called up and Jankowski was instantly an upgrade on Lazar, Brouwer, and even that year's Kris Versteeg. Even more importnantly, this was the same time when Matt Bartkowski became press box filler in lieu of an actual NHL defenseman in Brett Kulak.

This shouldn't be mistaken as

1) Jankowski being better ar C than Bennett - he wasn't
2) Bennett being more effective at LW offensively - he actually continued his pointless streak for another handful of games at LW before the bounces started to go his way. Even then, he shot a worse percentage that season overall than he did in the previous 1.5 seasons that he spent at center.
3) the Kulak / Bartkowski swap not having any impact - it had a massive impact on the team that year.

The absolute best thing Calgary can do to improve is to put Andrew Mangiapane on Sam Bennett's wing. These are our #5 and #6 primary point producers last year, pairing them makes all kinds of sense.

Not having Bennett at least be tried as a 3C was Peters' biggest failure last year as it took any flexibility away from him when Jankowski proved useless.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Misleading... as a C he was one of our best players in the 2017 playoffs on a line with Versteeg (no longer in league) and Chiasson (who a year later was a 13th forward in Washington). That was at age 20 when he still struggled with faceoffs (he's far improved at faceoffs now for whatever that is worth).

The next year, he was expected to carry an awful Bartkowski-Stone pair at ES, Versteeg was atrocious, and his RW was a rotation of Lazar and Brouwer. There was a couple games where he centered a Versteeg - Bennett - Jagr line, and they were dominant in every way besides puck luck (Craig Andersson and Jonathan Quick stood on their heads). Even then, they were a net zero in their ridiculously limited time together.

When Bennett was moved to LW, it was a mild success because Jankowski was called up and Jankowski was instantly an upgrade on Lazar, Brouwer, and even that year's Kris Versteeg. Even more importnantly, this was the same time when Matt Bartkowski became press box filler in lieu of an actual NHL defenseman in Brett Kulak.

This shouldn't be mistaken as

1) Jankowski being better ar C than Bennett - he wasn't
2) Bennett being more effective at LW offensively - he actually continued his pointless streak for another handful of games at LW before the bounces started to go his way. Even then, he shot a worse percentage that season overall than he did in the previous 1.5 seasons that he spent at center.
3) the Kulak / Bartkowski swap not having any impact - it had a massive impact on the team that year.

The absolute best thing Calgary can do to improve is to put Andrew Mangiapane on Sam Bennett's wing. These are our #5 and #6 primary point producers last year, pairing them makes all kinds of sense.

Not having Bennett at least be tried as a 3C was Peters' biggest failure last year as it took any flexibility away from him when Jankowski proved useless.

What do you mean by "primary point producers". I can't figure out how Bennett and Mangiapaine would be ranked anything points related 5 and 6 on this team.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Misleading... as a C he was one of our best players in the 2017 playoffs on a line with Versteeg (no longer in league) and Chiasson (who a year later was a 13th forward in Washington). That was at age 20 when he still struggled with faceoffs (he's far improved at faceoffs now for whatever that is worth).

The next year, he was expected to carry an awful Bartkowski-Stone pair at ES, Versteeg was atrocious, and his RW was a rotation of Lazar and Brouwer. There was a couple games where he centered a Versteeg - Bennett - Jagr line, and they were dominant in every way besides puck luck (Craig Andersson and Jonathan Quick stood on their heads). Even then, they were a net zero in their ridiculously limited time together.

When Bennett was moved to LW, it was a mild success because Jankowski was called up and Jankowski was instantly an upgrade on Lazar, Brouwer, and even that year's Kris Versteeg. Even more importnantly, this was the same time when Matt Bartkowski became press box filler in lieu of an actual NHL defenseman in Brett Kulak.

This shouldn't be mistaken as

1) Jankowski being better ar C than Bennett - he wasn't
2) Bennett being more effective at LW offensively - he actually continued his pointless streak for another handful of games at LW before the bounces started to go his way. Even then, he shot a worse percentage that season overall than he did in the previous 1.5 seasons that he spent at center.
3) the Kulak / Bartkowski swap not having any impact - it had a massive impact on the team that year.

The absolute best thing Calgary can do to improve is to put Andrew Mangiapane on Sam Bennett's wing. These are our #5 and #6 primary point producers last year, pairing them makes all kinds of sense.

Not having Bennett at least be tried as a 3C was Peters' biggest failure last year as it took any flexibility away from him when Jankowski proved useless.

So would this be:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube
Mangiapane - Bennett - Neal
Jankowski - Ryan - Czarnik
- Quine -
?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Nelson

So would this be:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube
Mangiapane - Bennett - Neal
Jankowski - Ryan - Czarnik
- Quine -
?

If Neal is NHL-caliber. Otherwise I'd put Czarnik, Phillips, Quine, or Dube there. Mangiapane and Bennett are both pretty versatile players so they really just need someone well-rounded with them.

I'd also try Jankowski in the Frolik role as I think his shooting skill, size, and defensive effort is an asset with the creation of the other two.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Wdf.
You think an aribitration panel would care what’s written on a forum?
Why are these rumours bad news
You have some really odd opinions

So are you saying that the direct comparisons of talent being raised here are not at all valid? Now we have highlighted a direct comparison between RNH and Bennett and have no clear cut winner.

If Bennett's agent doesn't follow CP I would be shocked.

IF RNH does not come up as a direct comparison in Bennett's favour then someone is aslepp at the switch.


The Flames would like to make Armia's 2x2.5 the Bennet comparable.

There would be less than 5% of people that follow the Flames and the NHL in general that would be happy with Armia for Bennett even up.

Armia was a 4th liner for the Jets in the playoffs and a healthy scratch. Bennett was in the top level players in 2 of the Flames playoff years.